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Those Undesirable Small Block Muscle Car Engines!


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Best 15 minutes I’ve spent today, had two of those motors, the 289 hipo, and the Pontiac 350, both great little movers, never had the 340 but I left a lot of 340 owners scratching their heads with my RR 383, comments usually started with, “never been bested by a roadrunner before” if I can  say this without coming across as presumptuous I had a knack at the tree and being as those were the four speed years I took a lot of info in when ever reading about Sox, Grumpy, Landy et al, great, enjoyable years 1967 to 1972.

thanx.

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The RR 383 ran well BUT the 375/390 440 just worked better. Interesting, to the best of my recollection there was only 1 BB Mopar CAR head,  it was used in the 361 to 440 engines up until the smog engine came along in 72 and none of them had valve seats just bare casting.  The 361 and 413 truck heads were unique to the truck heads with valve seats,  different cooling flow and smaller diameter spark plugs.  I still have a 440 installed in a 74 Dart.  It has the heads off of a 65 413 car with large diameter SS valves, something Mopar never made or put on a BB.

Another slow day in Texas.

 

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9 minutes ago, oleman said:

The RR 383 ran well BUT the 375/390 440 just worked better. Interesting, to the best of my recollection there was only 1 BB Mopar CAR head,  it was used in the 361 to 440 engines up until the smog engine came along in 72 and none of them had valve seats just bare casting.  The 361 and 413 truck heads were unique to the truck heads with valve seats,  different cooling flow and smaller diameter spark plugs.  I still have a 440 installed in a 74 Dart.  It has the heads off of a 65 413 car with large diameter SS valves, something Mopar never made or put on a BB.

Another slow day in Texas.

 

Big yup on the 440, I always figured a tossup with the elephant, but the hemi being a hemi and coming up through the formative years of the 50s was the go to motor, the 383 being 2 bolt mains was a good engine and methinks the roadrunner base idea in ‘68 was a rubber mat, bench seat, 4 speed mussel car with a good amount of power, and having the hemi as an option it lived up to that, when ‘69 1/2 came about with 440 and the fiberglass hood and the addons it was going away from the original intent.

the 413 was a brutal engine made even better when they introduced the octopus manifolds, what year was that first brought out? Was it an alphabet car? Slow day in bc also. 

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That guy is obviously a big block fan.

Here in NW PA, the majority of the muscle cars were all small blocks. They were hard to beat on the street. Not many strips close by. Interesting, the built 340's run like ****, and the only thing that could beat them, was when the guys from Ohio come over with their T Buckets.

When I was living in CA, practically every mopar that you saw, had either a 440 or a hemi. I think I saw maybe 3 small blocks the whole time. Back here, just the opposite.

How could you not remember a 289 or a 327 in any design.

We used to run a 65 chevelle, hillborn injected 327. Gotta love those rpm's.

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I just think, as with all guys here ya gotta love cars, being older and not in any hurry to forget those days threads like this always make me smile, so many different guys, so many different manners of speed, and least of all so many different memories, I can think of one day racing and come up with a dozen different memorable moments.

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44 minutes ago, Dasnake said:

methinks the roadrunner base idea in ‘68 was a rubber mat, bench seat, 4 speed mussel car with a good amount of power,

And, IIRC, that is how Plymouth marketed the Road Runner, with the GTX being released and marketed as a more 'luxurious', and more expensive muscle car.

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I remember as a kid, too young to drive, I tagged along with my brother when he went to a small local junk yard. I remember walking thru the  old wood sided, wood floor shop, and there on engine stands in the main room was Hemi on one and a SOCH on the other. Not bad for a town of 10,000 population.

We had lots of muscle cars for a small area. Probably the best was 427 Motion Vega. Even still had the door buzzer in it, but sweeeeet.

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1 hour ago, Duntongw said:

I remember as a kid, too young to drive, I tagged along with my brother when he went to a small local junk yard. I remember walking thru the  old wood sided, wood floor shop, and there on engine stands in the main room was Hemi on one and a SOCH on the other. Not bad for a town of 10,000 population.

We had lots of muscle cars for a small area. Probably the best was 427 Motion Vega. Even still had the door buzzer in it, but sweeeeet.

No sheet, When we hung out in the Klink's Parking lot on North 10th in McAllen, TX, in 1970-72 there were a GT500KR, a nice 1969 Camero that made rumpety-rump 'noise' , a Mercury Cougar Eliminator (Boss 302), Pontiac Gran Prix SJ, a Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Gran Sport, a couple of SS 396s, and every now and then a Corvette or two would show up, one being a 1967 427/425. I remember one or two Plymouth/Dodge two door cars, but neither had a Hemi.

But the little town of Dunlap, Iowa population of maybe 1200, had a Boss 429 and an older man who bought a Chevelle SS 454.

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6 minutes ago, Art From Coleman said:

No sheet, When we hung out in the Klink's Parking lot on North 10th in McAllen, TX, in 1970-72 there were a GT500KR, a nice 1969 Camero that made rumpety-rump 'noise' , a Mercury Cougar Eliminator (Boss 302), Pontiac Gran Prix SJ, a Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Gran Sport, a couple of SS 396s, and every now and then a Corvette or two would show up, one being a 1967 427/425. I remember one or two Plymouth/Dodge two door cars, but neither had a Hemi.

But the little town of Dunlap, Iowa population of maybe 1200, had a Boss 429 and an older man who bought a Chevelle SS 454.

Everything was American graffiti style 60s into the 70s, we had the White spot drive in and seniority got you to the back row, the knuckle draggers out of Surrey always ended up on the front three rows, then around midnight everyone left for the street races, this thread is funny cuz my kid texted me this morning about a spot we used to race at, it was a road going up to Simon Fraser university, deader than dead after closing hours, and asked if (yes) I street raced there and what I drove, (Z), damn I enjoy threads like this.

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2 hours ago, Art From Coleman said:

And, IIRC, that is how Plymouth marketed the Road Runner, with the GTX being released and marketed as a more 'luxurious', and more expensive muscle car.

Ahh the GTX, the gentlemen's mussel car, '66 to'71 I believe, a hemi or a 440, I had a satellite with a 383, they were nice cars, buckets, consoles, hardtop, I also drove a 65 savoy, bench, post, 3 speed 383, ex-cop car, cop suspension, cop engine, cop brakes, cop tranny, ( anybody catch my jist with the cop stuff?)

And yes art, the push for the RR was cheep and fast.

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We had an A&P grocery store with a big parking lot and a Riverside grocery across the street. Saturday nights both would be full with muscle cars. Of course back then it was all brute horse power, no bottles and buttons and crap. We had a friend we helped get his 440 back in his 69 Charger. The thing would pull the wheels at the strip. We got the motor in and bolted on the hood. He says lets run into town just to break it in. His house was on the edge of town, so it was close. We loaded up, went past the A&P on the 4 lanes, looped and wound up racing some guy in 383 RR. Needless to say, smoked him. So much for breaking it in.

A guy I worked with ordered a 429 Boss. It come in the wrong color, didn't want it. Went out to this hole in the wall Chrysler garage that just happen to have a Cuda, purple, white interior, white rag top. He bought it, eventually wound up blowing it up street racing. Sat behind a garage for a number of years. It went thru Barrett-Jackson and was bought by Jackson for some millions of dollars a few years ago.

A local dairy farmer bought the Boss. Hardly ever drove it, sat up in the barn till the mice got in it. Gone now.

Another friend had a 69 Camaro, 302 cross ram. Went to lunch at the tasty freeze one day, something caught fire under the hood. He had hood pins and the heat swelled the hood on the pins and he couldn't get it up. Burnt to the ground. Him and his cousin went to another hole in the wall Chevy dealer. They had (2) 70 Camaros on the floor, an LT1 Z28 and a SS 396. They flipped a coin to see who got choice, they took them both.

Another guy I worked with, still has his Grand Spalding 69 440 Dart. His brother still has his 340 Swinger.

Out in CA it seems it's mostly tires, wheels, exhaust and a crate motor. Back here though, it's still mostly good old school hp.

Yea, those were good times. Pity the kids today. Some get into some wild rides, but not the numbers there used to be.

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remember one of my mentors going down town port huron with his jetstar 88 [olds] with a 400 rockett [4bbl]

use to blow the doors off of the kids cars by the time they got to 16th street 

Mike

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1 hour ago, Dasnake said:

Is she almost 2, kutey pie.

That's an old pic of zeke with his sweet mullet, zeke is 5 now. Bonnie is 1. Here is a pic of the 2. Still got 2 more not in the pic

20201213_121103.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Mike H said:

remember one of my mentors going down town port huron with his jetstar 88 [olds] with a 400 rockett [4bbl]

use to blow the doors off of the kids cars by the time they got to 16th street 

Mike

Some of the “normal” vehicles from the late 50s to early 70s had pretty impressive performance, my favourite being  bigger motored, higher geared, bigger sedans, not crazy off the line but once it’s rolling... my 72 Newport with a 400 can pull your average Honda kid’s passing attempt on the highway, shifts out of second at 90, my Newport is rated at 190 hp, pretty much the same car in 69 or 70 had a 383 rated at 300 hp, that’s just your average entry level Chrysler available at the time

I have driven tons of old cars and trucks, the most impressive in stock trim has been a 63 Grand Prix, it was a 389, rated at 335?, it really went, I guess it was because of my carb rebuild, hahaha

 

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I have more cubic inches today than anyone I knew in the 60's.

460 CI Ford in an F350. Stock 3.55 gears Max RPM probably 4000.

454 CI Chevy in a K2500. 9.3 CR  4.11 gears TBI  Truck heads with tiny valves max RPM about 4800.

440 CI HP MOPAR in a 74 Dart. Edelbrock 750 CFM 9.3 CR/ big Cam, Big Valve, Torqflite 727 3.25 gears Front Disc Brakes - ADDED Max RPM 6000.

505 CI Cummins ISC in an RV Max RPM 2350.

AND a 100 CI Nissan Versa/Skate Max RPM 6500! rated at 105 HP

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Rusty shackleford said:

That's an old pic of zeke with his sweet mullet, zeke is 5 now. Bonnie is 1. Here is a pic of the 2. Still got 2 more not in the pic

20201213_121103.jpg

Well damn rusty that wuz a BIG oops, don’t tell zeke about this he’ll kick my shins if I ever make it through sleepy eye, but the same goes though, he wuz a kutey pie, and she is , whewww.

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A guy I hadn't seen for 15 years stopped by the farm to show me his "new car" It was a late 60's GTX which was totally restored. He told me he had been looking for 15-20 years to find a GTX the same as what his Dad had when he was younger. He found it online he went and checked it out then had a friend go negotiate the price/sale of the car for him. He said everything was removed,cleaned and repainted. He told me a few other details about it. I asked who did the restore, He said it was one of Paul Allen's cars so it was his own guys that did the work. After Paul died the sister received all goodies and was selling the cars.

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This has that vibe, that Motion Vega would have been nasty, fastest car in our town by a country mile was a 73 Hemi Cuda local speed shop owner built, then there was all the rest, most were bought for $3500 ish then you built, raced, blew up and crashed and threw away like Friday nights beer bottle to go onto the next one

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