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Or am I to keep bottom corners of triangle the same, one on wing and the other on main frame?

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I would add a tube close to the pivot for the axle lifting fulcrum like this. Tack in place then raise and lower to confirm clearance before finishing welding

Just make sure the angle isn't so sharp that it binds on the cylinder clevis and bends or break the rod.

Rephasing cylinders or solid rockshaft, especially if a "middle" position between full up and down is used......otherwise it will settle to the heaviest side part way up.

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I would be looking to use those cylinders to raise the wings by extension rather than retraction.   Looks like they have a rather large rod for their size which means their pull power will be low compared to the push power.  That being said, those wings look very light and I think about any arrangement will do so long as the wing travel is satisfactory.

In any case, you need to get the cylinder pin much closer to the centerline of the wing.  

From a theoretical stand point, it would be preferable to have the cylinder pulling on the center bar like your first picture.  This keeps the torsional load more even on that tube.  I will post some pictures of a wing and cylinder design that I built a couple years ago.

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Posted (edited)

Was just doing test run on front beam before adding in a cross member to centre assembly front to back so it will raise evenly with same amount of weight front and back.

Cylinders are 2"x8" with1-1/8" rod

Edited by Mountain Heritage
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Pictures. Cylinders are 3x16 extended rod. Didn’t want the extended rod but that’s what was readily available. The wings can go about 10* below level.  Overall wing length is about 10’6” and weighs about 400 lbs. 

AAF4F5CD-4FD7-4156-BB54-F6A11ECF0B34.jpeg

F60F3FFC-356A-4313-A829-69B9EBBCB1BB.jpeg

A71BF1F2-AEA1-4BAA-9A33-552876199CA6.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

Pictures. Cylinders are 3x16 extended rod. Didn’t want the extended rod but that’s what was readily available. The wings can go about 10* below level.  Overall wing length is about 10’6” and weighs about 400 lbs. 

AAF4F5CD-4FD7-4156-BB54-F6A11ECF0B34.jpeg

F60F3FFC-356A-4313-A829-69B9EBBCB1BB.jpeg

A71BF1F2-AEA1-4BAA-9A33-552876199CA6.jpeg

So cylinders I have can pull that wing at that low of angle?  That would be awesome!

Will give it a try!

Thanks 

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Like this?

 

20210408_145916.jpg

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I would try it. The cylinders on mine don’t struggle at all to raise the wings. Might have to radius the corner on your barrel clevis mount. 

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I am busy hauling used cowfeed , tonight I will try to sketch what I would try

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😀😁

That worked!!!

 

20210408_152718.jpg

20210408_152710.jpg

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2 minutes ago, bitty said:

I am busy hauling used cowfeed , tonight I will try to sketch what I would try

Got it to work thanks.  Just need to replace mocked up design with something permanent. 

Thanks @Gearclash

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Your current arrangement has the barrel clevis pin laterally close to the wing pivot. If you were to change it so the rod pin is laterally close to the wing pivot, then there would be minimal movement of the cylinder barrel which will make you hose management much easier. 

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51 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

8A492212-DBD9-4486-B6A8-B87B255D4148.jpeg

Ok, will see how hoses react as I work at getting final fit.

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Need some more help.  🤦‍♂️

3"x8" lift cylinders on wheels, one each.  How so I synchronize them to lift at the same time vs o e side then the other?

Right now the two lines run to a Tee in middle of tongue before going to tractor.

Also can I install a resistor in the lines to slow stuff down?  Have tractor set as slow as possible and it lifts faster than I'd like.

@Gearclash

@bitty

Others???

 

20210409_135507.jpg

20210409_140243.jpg

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There are only two ways I can think of to totally assure synchronization and that is tie the two wheel arms together mechanically with a tube between them (best way usually) or use a master/slave cylinder system.  There are restrictors available but I don’t know much about them other than that they exist.  It is possible that adding a restrictor may make the two cylinders work in tandem better than an unrestricted system, but I don’t know that for sure.  Would be interested to here what others say about the effect of restrictors.

There is also such a thing as a one way restrictor.  Round balers use them in the door circuit.  Full flow to open the door, reduced flow for closing.

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10 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

There are only two ways I can think of to totally assure synchronization and that is tie the two wheel arms together mechanically with a tube between them (best way usually) or use a master/slave cylinder system.  There are restrictors available but I don’t know much about them other than that they exist.  It is possible that adding a restrictor may make the two cylinders work in tandem better than an unrestricted system, but I don’t know that for sure.  Would be interested to here what others say about the effect of restrictors.

There is also such a thing as a one way restrictor.  Round balers use them in the door circuit.  Full flow to open the door, reduced flow for closing.

Heavy wall tube even like schedule 80 . Otherwise there might be a way to hook together unconventionally I will try to get a drawing later today

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DewEze has a restrictor inline to slow the speed of the bale when lowering from the bed to the ground. 

works real well. 

If there is a negative it is the "whooooosh" sound it makes as the oil goes through it. That is it. 

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5 minutes ago, snoshoe said:

A 50-50 flow divider would do the job.

If using one of those I would install the flow restrictor at the male pioneer tips . Make hoses "Tee" exactly in the middle of the machine. All hoses symmetrical side to side

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Anyone have a picture of suggested way of tieing wheels together?  Would have to be pretty side framework again wouldn't it to stop from twisting?

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Rephasing cylinders or solid rockshaft, especially if a "middle" position between full up and down is used......otherwise it will settle to the heaviest side part way up.

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14 hours ago, bitty said:

Heavy wall tube even like schedule 80 . Otherwise there might be a way to hook together unconventionally I will try to get a drawing later today

@bitty

@Gearclash

@Mr. Plow

20210404_181534.thumb.jpg.c4c9dfe11ac38f56356bea304e264f2d.jpg

So if I run a piece of square or round tubing with like a 3/16" or 1/4" wall across from wheel arm to wheel arm say about 2 - 4 inches up from where the axle runs through the arm for the wheel, that should "tie" it together?  Then I can synchronize the cylinders as suggested?

img.thumb.jpg.68292792052573c78dd3552d7f024352.jpg

The thing that is making me scratch my head - how can J&M get theirs to lift without the connecting steel between the two sets of wheels?

Other than they are WAY more talented than me and know what they are doing!!

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13 minutes ago, Mountain Heritage said:

@bitty

@Gearclash

@Mr. Plow

20210404_181534.thumb.jpg.c4c9dfe11ac38f56356bea304e264f2d.jpg

So if I run a piece of square or round tubing with like a 3/16" or 1/4" wall across from wheel arm to wheel arm say about 2 - 4 inches up from where the axle runs through the arm for the wheel, that should "tie" it together?  Then I can synchronize the cylinders as suggested?

img.thumb.jpg.68292792052573c78dd3552d7f024352.jpg

The thing that is making me scratch my head - how can J&M get theirs to lift without the connecting steel between the two sets of wheels?

Other than they are WAY more talented than me and know what they are doing!!

My guess is that J&M are using phasing cylinders. Oil goes from the tractor raises the one cylinder, oil leaving that cylinder goes to second cylinder and raises that. The cylinders are sized slightly different than each other in a purposefull way to accomplish level lifting.

I would try to weld a tube around here but I think at least 1/4 or even somewhat thicker wall is better. I would try to get as close as practical to the pivot as possible without being in harm's way. On my editor scratching the line with my finger it's not very accurate

Sorry I have been busy hauling used cow feed all week, one day of good weather yet to get what we can done yet

Screenshot_20210410-045818~2.png

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6 minutes ago, bitty said:

My guess is that J&M are using phasing cylinders. Oil goes from the tractor raises the one cylinder, oil leaving that cylinder goes to second cylinder and raises that. The cylinders are sized slightly different than each other in a purposefull way to accomplish level lifting.

I would try to weld a tube around here but I think at least 1/4 or even somewhat thicker wall is better. I would try to get as close as practical to the pivot as possible without being in harm's way. On my editor scratching the line with my finger it's not very accurate

Sorry I have been busy hauling used cow feed all week, one day of good weather yet to get what we can done yet

Screenshot_20210410-045818~2.png

Ok, understandable about J&M's method.  

I have some 2"x2" 1/4" wall square tubing here I could use.  Your finger editing does fine.  Put it as close to where the cylinder attaches to the wheel arm, near the pin.  That would work.  

No worries on being busy, your work is WAY more important than helping with my problems.  I appreciate everything you and the others have had to offer me.  Big help!!

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