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1977 New to me 4386 - Needing help with electrical demons for display


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So, story goes I got this tractor accidentally. I was watching an online auction sale for other items when this old girl came up and the bidding stalled and it seemed way to cheap for that much tractor so I bid once to try and help out the seller... and well I won. Had no idea if it even moved under it's own power! But... for the price paid... I could basically part it out or send it to the scrap yard and get more then I paid for it so it was a good deal if it worked or not.

 

She's pretty ugly, but... the tractor does run, starts amazing and seems like it shifts and goes thru the gears just fine, I haven't tried pulling anything yet but hopeful this spring to hook up to a cultivator and see what this tractor can do. I'm not worried about it's looks more that mechanically it's sound so I've been slowly tinkering and learning about it but right now my problem is my RPM/MPH/Hr meter display doesn't work.

 

I did get a wiring schematic from someone on this forum, but it doesn't quite seem to jive up with the display wiring so I'm not sure if I have the wrong schematic or not. I'm wondering if anyone on this forum has more schematics or maybe has tinkered with this display and could give me the pin-out where each signal goes. Right now I only have power on pin 2 of the connector, but on the back of the display itself there is no wiring on pin 2... so I'm missing power from somewhere and I'm not sure where it's supposed to go. I have ground on pin 13 so I'm assuming that's correct, and I spoke with a member on this forum who said power is provided to the display thru the oil pressure switch, but I checked and the switch works but I didn't see power down there so not sure.

 

Anyway, if anyone has experience with this display or troubleshooting it or maybe has schematics I sure would appreciate any help. If I could get this going I'd feel more confident taking it out into the field

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1 minute ago, Alan Dinan said:

Doesn’t look bad at all!! Good luck on finding the broken wire. 

It's got character :)

 

I'd rather just know which pin(s) need power and replace the wires... often that's quicker. But none of the schematics I've seen seem to jive up with what I'm seeing so I'm not sure if someone in the past has been in there tinkering or what's going on. Plan is today to get the seed cleaner fired up and going, then I can tinker/troubleshoot while it's chugging away. One of those nice jobs someone "should" be around to check in on it but can work on something else most the day. Multi tasking!

 

Leading theory is right now the oil pressure switch, one should have power on the pins to power the display and HR meter, guessing/hoping if I trace the wires it's just a bad fuse or disconnected/broken wire

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12 hours ago, IHC_1470 said:

Maybe this link will help. Have a dealer close by, maybe they would let you look at their manuals if they still have them.

https://cdn.compknowhow.com/carterandgruenewald/wiring_diagrams/IH 4WD.pdf

 

I've called the local dealers that worked on these, and everyone said they long time ago threw out the service manuals for them since they don't work on them anymore. I guess 44yrs old not worth the shelf space to keep the books...

 

Thank you for the schematics though, they are different then the others I have so I just printed off a copy now I'm going to start reviewing over coffee!

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2 hours ago, BigTom209 said:

 

I've called the local dealers that worked on these, and everyone said they long time ago threw out the service manuals for them since they don't work on them anymore. I guess 44yrs old not worth the shelf space to keep the books...

 

Thank you for the schematics though, they are different then the others I have so I just printed off a copy now I'm going to start reviewing over coffee!

They probably just told you that.They don't want to work on them,they don't know how and don't want to take away from higher paying warranty work.I bet they have them and since nobody knows how to fix them they just don't want to give you free info over phone.

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The item labeled "DIgital Monitor" top center on the "DIgital monitor & A/C"  schematic *should* be the correct plug for the tach.  Note that the early s/n with the simple tach do not have the thermocouple or EGT.

I never really worked on mine, I can't say if the older tach w/ switch had the same pinout as the newer style with EGT and pushbuttons.   (I had a 1486 with the newer style I worked on too many times....)

The schematics I sent & the one online is definitely for the newer tach.   

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Yes it is working now! And as always it’s good to post what I found and how it was fixed for any future people having issues with the same thing and maybe come across this post. 
 

Many thanks to J-mech and Jeff-C-IL for putting up with my constant PMs asking for advice! 
 

So, I knew I didn’t have power going to the display from checking the pins, so I took the panel off below the steering wheel and found the auto fuse panel was corroded pretty heavily and looked rough. Since I knew these wires should have +12 on them I grabbed a jumper wire attached to the cab relay and jumpered +12 to each side of the fuses. I believe the 3rd one from the back when I did this lit up the display, there is a label buried under the wires and even says display on it. 
 

so I knew this was the fuse needing power, but I had to fiddle to get it connecting because of the corrosion. So I took out all the fuses, cleaned them up carefully on the grinders wire brush, checked continuity on them all with 1 looked good but wasn’t connecting so garbage, took emery cloth and cleaned up the fuse holders, then gently crushed the tabs together so they’d be “tighter” on the fuse

 

popped the fuses back in, all now showed 12V on the far side of the input and to each of the wires. So got good connection to the wires now

 

J-Mech told me the power comes from the oil pressure switch, so I went down and there are (2) switches down there one with just 2 terminals and one with 3 terminals. Looking at the schematics it makes sense, the one with 2 terminals is simply to power the display, the other is used for low oil pressure indication. So I figured out which wire at the switches had 12V constant, then went up to the cab and jumpered the display wire then went back down to figure out which wire now had 12V

those 2 wires are the ones that goto the 2 terminal pressure switch. When the engine is running the pressure builds, closes the switch and sends power to the display and hour meter. This makes sense since you’d only want power to the HR meter when the engine is actually running and not off an switched ignition
 

the other wires, as per the schematic one is tied to ground and the others are used for indication so just followed the schematic and got it sorted out. 
 

so... I ended up having fuse issues... and wiring issues as someone at some point mismatched the oil switch wires. Once I got all that sorted, gauge works like a charm!!! 
 

And for anyone troubleshooting, when it’s working correctly there is power on PIN 12 of the connector, right beside the ground on pin 13. Which again doesn’t seem to jive up with the schematics but meh... it works so I’m not to worried about it 

89A11F83-6FFC-4027-BC77-DC701B876FE8.jpeg

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9 hours ago, stronger800 said:

Congrats. I enjoyed your process description.

( I like it when people do things in a way that makes sense, how I would think I would have done it.)

Couldn't Have Said It Better!!     

Great Group Of people Contributing Their Knowledge to a Member in Need.

Jim Droscha 

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49 minutes ago, jimw said:

Ugly , ? U must be on the wrong forum. 🙃

Yeah I'm being hard on the poor thing with my words.. it's character is growing on me! The interior looked pretty rough but after I got the gauge working I switched to getting the blower motor working and cleared out the mouse nest up above the vents and after doing that actually tidied up the cab a bit, so it's looking better each time. Might take some interior detailing products I use on my vehicles to spruce it up even more just for show lol 

 

But this is my first tractor, and up until now I've always just borrowed tractors from the families fleet for the little bit of land I farm. So when you go from a STX425 with luxury cab or even one of the well kept 9370's... this faded old 4386 seems pretty "ugly" in comparison. But... it's simplicity I sure like! And the fact I paid less for the whole tractor then the cost to replace even 1 tire on the bigger tractors... ... ... well... I just hope this old girl will keep chugging along for years to come cause I'll be smiling with every working hour I get out of it! And as I've told everyone, once I get a chance to run it and know it's mechanically a sound unit (no reason yet to suspect it won't be, clutch I'm getting nervous about but haven't dug into it yet just doesn't feel quite right to me) I don't mind tossing some cash at it to spiff it up! I can picture how good this tractor would look with a fresh coat of paint and a few interior upgrades

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A couple other tips from my experience:

Birds used to go inside the cab filter housings and build nests.  I took off the covers and bent & rivited some course mesh over the open side of the cover, on the inside.   Can't see it at all from the outside, but kept out the *#$& sparrows.

Speaking of birds - I had a VERY determined robin who insisted on building a nest on top of the exhaust manifold.   If I let the tractor sit more than 1 day, for 3 years on a row!  After the first fire, I learned to walk around and glance at the motor before starting it!

My coolant tank used to splash dribbles until I cut the top off an old one, and added a 3" piece of radiator hose to make the filler cap sit higher....not a big deal, but I didn't like the streaking.   Of course, a better gasket might have also solved the problem?

Adding oil to the front rear end is a pain.  Since this is also the hydraulic reservoir, its necessary if you have any leak at all.   In fact, learn to park the tractor on a level and check the fluid level in the sight glass every morning.   I made a fitting/hose that would move the fill point up by the motor where I could use a funnel.    Of course, if you have a pump & hose on your hytran barrel its simple, I just had jugs. 

One of the biggest "Messes" I had on mine was the main pressure feed hose from the oil pump to the hydraulic valves behind the cab got old and blew off by the valves.  It took about 10 seconds to blow most of the oil all over the back half of the tractor!   I suggest you simply look at yours, and if it looks old/cracked/worn, replace it BEFORE you lose 30 gallon of Hytran....

ANd looks....there isn't a more handsome 4x4, IMO.   I've always thought these tractors looked strong and "4-square".   Way better looking that the 9230!

 

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All good advice Jeff! 

Previous owners mustof had the same bird issues, I took out the cab filter and there was already a mesh screen installed in front of it! But, the mice of course were on the inside and built a nest inside the damn filter?!? So... will see I cleaned it out really good in there and ran the blower for quite sometime and didn't really smell mouse anymore so hopeful. May need a new cab filter anyway just cause. For now, it always get's parked beside the barn where there is approx 30 always kept slightly hungry mousers... I feel sorry for any mouse or bird nearby

 

I talked with a mechanic who worked lots on these 4386's, he also said always overfill the front diff at least a gallon, should always be on the high side of the site glass. Not sure how much truth there is to it, but he seemed pretty adamant about it. Right now mines usually sitting around 1/2, but I plan to change it and the filters anyway before hitting the field. The rear end also uses Hytran I'd assume? Is there a sight glass on the rear or just a fill port? One of those things I'm sure an operators manual would tell me :) I have a few small leaks so one of those things I know I better keep an eye on this stuff. I looked over the hoses a bit and they actually looked good, but by the sounds of it I may be smart to take a second, much closer look. Nothing worse then blowing a hose and in a matter of seconds returning hundreds of bucks in oil back from where it came. 

 

My coolant tank is no longer an issue! For the record, sun baked 45yr old plastic the slightest bump from your elbow when the wrench slips off the oil pressure sensors your fiddling with will crack the coolant tank! Who knew right? But FYI for anyone, the reservoir tanks from the 90's chev truck in the back pasture will fit at a slight angle and you can hit 2/3 of the bolt holes, and just a self tap bolt for the 3rd. And it has one size larger hose but the one from the truck is long enough to replace the IH one. Now I have more capacity if need be and easier sight/filling! Sticks out like a sore thumb but meh... I've already mentioned function is worth more to me then looks currently :)

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2 hours ago, BigTom209 said:

For now, it always get's parked beside the barn where there is approx 30 always kept slightly hungry mousers... I feel sorry for any mouse or bird nearby

Well, I complain about my wife having cats in the house, BUT.....haven't seen a mouse in a couple years!

I talked with a mechanic who worked lots on these 4386's, he also said always overfill the front diff at least a gallon, should always be on the high side of the site glass. Not sure how much truth there is to it, but he seemed pretty adamant about it. Right now mines usually sitting around 1/2, but I plan to change it and the filters anyway before hitting the field. The rear end also uses Hytran I'd assume? Is there a sight glass on the rear or just a fill port? 

I agree.   Not hurting anything a little overfull.  Fill it to the top of the glass.   The back rear end is pretty much sealed, just the fill port, no sight glass.   I can't remember if the back one is Hytran or gear lube, I think I used HyTran.   I'm sure J-Mech could confirm.

My coolant tank is no longer an issue! For the record, sun baked 45yr old plastic the slightest bump from your elbow when the wrench slips off the oil pressure sensors your fiddling with will crack the coolant tank! Who knew right? But FYI for anyone, the reservoir tanks from the 90's chev truck in the back pasture will fit at a slight angle and you can hit 2/3 of the bolt holes, and just a self tap bolt for the 3rd. And it has one size larger hose but the one from the truck is long enough to replace the IH one. Now I have more capacity if need be and easier sight/filling! Sticks out like a sore thumb but meh... I've already mentioned function is worth more to me then looks currently :)

I actually bought 2 new ones, the 1st new one only lasted about 5 years.  I think they are NOS---sitting in a warehouse for 40 years.   Your old Chevy might last longer.

 

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Yes, fill the front until it runs out the hole and get as much in before putting the cap on.  You want the sight glass full.  I fill ours running. 

Rear is hy-tran.

Blown hoses are no fun on that machine.  Easier to replace before everything is oil soaked and hot. 

I replaced the coolant puke tank on ours too.  So far so good, but it sits inside when not in use, and most of the time at night. 

I guess if you followed or read through my build thread on our 4586, you'll see we took a different approach.  Instead of seeing if it was a good tractor, we made it a good (and very nice) tractor and then put it in service.

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8 hours ago, BigTom209 said:

The interior looked pretty rough but after I got the gauge working I switched to getting the blower motor working and cleared out the mouse nest up above the vents and after doing that actually tidied up the cab a bit, so it's looking better each time. Might take some interior detailing products I use on my vehicles to spruce it up even more just for show lol

Tom,

I picked up an old 886 from my folks last spring. Cab was in the same shape as yours, only worse. Mouse nests were packed to the top of the housings on both sides of the seat. Nothing left for cab interior but mouse nest and droppings.

Stripped it down to bare metal and my oldest daughter who was home on a 10 day leave from the USMC masked off and painted the whole inside of the cab gloss black and 2150 red. Then we put in a new cab kit and later a floor mat from www.triplertractors.com @88seriesrestorer. Tore down the dash and cleaned it up, replaced the rubber knobs, got most of the gauges working, and fixed the power to the radio and blower.

I can't say it looks "showroom new" but it's pretty close and looks amazing for it's age! Keep the project pics coming. We gotta save these old machines!

And, welcome to the forum!

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I just purchased a 4386 (early S/N) as well and I'm chasing down some of the same problems.  My digital tach and speedometer do work, although the previous owner has a toggle switch supplying power to it.  My biggest concern is neither the oil pressure gauge nor oil pressure warning light are functioning.  I feel like that is too critical to operate the tractor without those working.  I ordered both of the sensors.  The pressure sending unit was marked "no longer available" but Messicks subbed it to a new part number 1341329C1.  I thought that would be a good place to start and matches my style of throw some new parts at it and see what happens!  My question, for now, is where are the DT466 should I be looking for these?  I see what I thought was at least on of them somewhat behind the oil filters but that has multiple wires going to it and my new sensors both only have one electrical connection.    

On a positive note, my 3 year old thinks the tractor is a fantastic jungle gym, when it's not moving of course!

IMG_3540.jpg

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3 hours ago, JSCHMIDT said:

I see what I thought was at least on of them somewhat behind the oil filters but that has multiple wires going to it and my new sensors both only have one electrical connection. 

The single electrical plug switch is either for a light or a gauge.  You can't tell by looking at them, so make sure you know which is which.

The sensor near the oil filters with multiple wires is for the tach. 

Should be another switch on it, right side, for the gauge.  It seems the light runs through the multi wire switch.  Sorry I can be more definite, but I can't remember and I don't have a book for them here at home. 

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Well, I will try to help in anyway I can! I just ordered a digital service manual today so hopeful to have it right away

 

the pressure transmitter I believe is on the drivers side kindof mid engine, don’t think I have a picture...

 

the oil pressure switches were on the passenger side on the back near the cab, pic attached. Mine I’m not sure if it’s factory but had basically a little T connector, each switch threaded into it, and just a threaded tube into the block. I had to take mine apart to redo the sealant cause it was leaking all over. The one has 2 connector, so 12V on one side and the other goes to the fuse panel/display 

 

the other with 3 terminals, the common goes to ground, and the other to the oil pressure alarms. 6374408C-026C-41DC-8C60-7F68FDE31ADB.thumb.jpeg.ffb023c791eef97c00061bf190609706.jpeg

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Looking up that part number it looks like you have the pressure sensor (and makes sense only 1 terminal) not a pressure switch. The switches are used to toggle the display and alarm, the sensor is to get an actual pressure indication 

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