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Last week I went down the road a couple of miles & pulled a neighbor out of snowbank.  I came home & parked the tractor.  I've been using it all winter plowing my driveway.  This morning I attempted to start it---and nothing.  No pop, all it would do is turn over.  I have a spark coming from the mag and gas going to the carb.  I'm getting spark to the #1 plug through a tester.  I pulled the #1 plug & it was dry.  I removed the carb, took it apart & blew out all the holes.  The float seems to be fine.  I reinstalled it---no help.  I cranked it some more, shooting starting fluid into the intake but it would not fire one cylinder.  This tractor has never refused to start, including the day I started it up on a mountain where it had been sitting for a dozen years.  I'd like a little (or a lot) advise on what to try next.

Vic

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33 minutes ago, Rawleigh99 said:

Ae the starting valves opening?

When I pulled the #1 plug, I noticed that the valve stem was down.

Vic

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damp weather /mild temps    or any inversions....?

no fire on ether    redo/super clean the electrics , or swap in /out known working parts you just took from a running engine.

  then add by pass fuel

move to flipper and valves sluggish

have driven out of dealer lots BC   spark and fuel passed in the shop

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I add gas at the time I start the motor.  It doesn't sit in the tank.  I'm wondering, if I can't get a pop out of a good dose of ether that maybe the mag is putting out a spark but it's just not enough to fire the plugs.  Of course, along with that thought, how does the mag work for ever, and then today it's too weak to work.

Vic

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I had a similar problem trying to start 14A that had set for 10 years in a open pasture.  The seller only wanted scrap price but I wanted to hear it run & he said he would help me.  It would take a lot of ether to get it running but finally it would.  It has still been that way for the last year until last Fall I mounted an old car coil to the frame below the mag, ran a wire to the stop screw on the mag after removing the coil wire from the brass shaft inside the mag.  The other side of the coil got power from the starter power terminal to a stop switch that was wired to the coil.  Made a world of difference!  That engine starts in a few revolutions of the starter and once warmed up & on diesel, I shut the switch off.  BTW, the generator is rusted tight so there is no charging system.  You only need the battery for starting, at a minimum.  Some day I will put an alternator and lights on it.  I saw that mag fix at the Red Power Roundup last year in SD.  You can use a higher priced Super Coil if you want, but I used what was easily available.  I simply tucked the coil inside the frame so it wouldn't get damaged by the tracks.

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I doubt I'll try something like you've described but it is interesting.  Thanks for sharing!  I've just about got my mind made up to pull the mag off of my -14 that sits right next to the "dead" one & try it to see if it makes a difference.  That would help keep the troubleshooting cheap, at least for the time being.

Vic

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I have neighbor with TD 6,14,15 and a 18. He has had linkage trouble many times, keeping the gas starting valves open and some other things I don't remember the terms for. 

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14 hours ago, thebunns said:

gas going to the carb. 

Gas may very well be going to the carburetor but, it don't have to be getting to the cylinders. Sounds like its a good chance the float may be stuck.

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Is the kill switch still wired up in the intake manifold with the mag?

Also 18 did that to me years ago but mine has the distributor but similar components and I had an old round 12V Harley coil and condenser and replaced and that was it, still on it

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2 hours ago, hardtail said:

Is the kill switch still wired up in the intake manifold with the mag?

Also 18 did that to me years ago but mine has the distributor but similar components and I had an old round 12V Harley coil and condenser and replaced and that was it, still on it

The kill switch has never been hooked up in the last ten years that I've owned the tractor.

Vic

3 hours ago, Buddy said:

Gas may very well be going to the carburetor but, it don't have to be getting to the cylinders. Sounds like its a good chance the float may be stuck.

I haven't tried it but I assume that if I remove a spark plug & turn the engine over, gas ought to spray out of the cylinder.  Correct?  Also, I've found a compression tester kit that includes an 18 mm adapter so I'll be using that as soon as it shows up.

Vic

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I understand that you wouldn't want to try my route, but when you try the other mag, you may solve your problem.  I tried new plugs, points, rotor, condenser, rebuilt the carburetor (more than once), and was at the end of my rope.  The add-on coil was an effort to diagnose and confirm a bad mag or not.  I also had fire at the plugs, but not enough to start the engine.  The fact that the ether didn't fire (to me) would indicate bad coil or closed starting valves. The coil could go dead (or the wire connecting it broke with age) but the starting valves going closed when the tractor has been starting OK up to this point still looks like a dead coil.  Try the other mag and find if it helps.  

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Stay tuned---it may take a bit as the -14 has a bad cylinder on gas & on diesel so I'm trying to work both of them.

Vic

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14 hours ago, oldscoutdiesel said:

I understand that you wouldn't want to try my route, but when you try the other mag, you may solve your problem.  I tried new plugs, points, rotor, condenser, rebuilt the carburetor (more than once), and was at the end of my rope.  The add-on coil was an effort to diagnose and confirm a bad mag or not.  I also had fire at the plugs, but not enough to start the engine.  The fact that the ether didn't fire (to me) would indicate bad coil or closed starting valves. The coil could go dead (or the wire connecting it broke with age) but the starting valves going closed when the tractor has been starting OK up to this point still looks like a dead coil.  Try the other mag and find if it helps.  

Can I assume that the only thing I have to watch when swapping mags is the position of the rotor?  If I remember correctly a mag will mount in only two ways, each being 180 deg. apart---correct?  If that's the case, I guess that all mags are put together the same way after being disassembled so that they will be within the adjustment range when installed in the motor.

Vic

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13 hours ago, Rawleigh99 said:

Is  the flippy thing opening completely so that the  butterfly valves behind the carb is opening completely? 

I'll check the "flippy thing"!  It has been working fine until the other day but, on the -14 I have to pull the yoke up every time I put the lever in the gas position because it sticks.  I've never been able to free it up.  I started to remove it once or twice but was afraid that I wouldn't be able to find replacement parts.

Vic

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To change the mag out, you could watch where the rotor is on each and set the new to the same angle as the old one(14A), thereby keeping it in time.  Or you might mark the direction of the new or donor mag(14) on the engine so when it's time to put it back, it will be in time on the '14.  And I'm sure that you know that diesel mags run backwards to gas mags.  As far as the "flippy thing" is concerned, I sprayed penetrant around the shaft going into the manifold and just worked it with me fingers, trying to make it snap back into resting position from its spring loading.  Mine wouldn't snap very well either after setting for 10 years, but works quite well now.  Good luck

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Thanks for the tip on timing---it's just as I thought.  I've had the intake manifold off several times, and each time I worked the butterflies to include spraying penetrant but the left side never freed up.  Now I spray the shaft with a nozzle on the spray can.  It has eased up a bit over the years, but not enough.

Vic

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I took the distributor caps off both engines & took pictures of the rotor locations.  I then mounted the -14 mag in the -14A & it started immediately.  I'm now going to replace the coil & condenser in the other mag & see if it works in the -14.  To Colin's request, I would add a simple hand scribed drawing (schematic) of the coil addition to put the subject to rest.

Vic

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My 14A is stored at the home place 50 miles from here.  I think I can draw up the wiring schematic for it and somehow post it.  I'm not at all good at that sort of thing but I can ask my son to help me.  I'll have to look at my Super M to get the polarity right on the coil.  I too may purchase a new coil for the mag or find a good working used one, but since the 14A is a working tractor and not a garage queen, I don't mind the change in parts if the tractor will simply start easily as it did when it was new. 

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Yesterday I checked the coil & condenser with a multimeter.  The condenser checked what I determined to be OK but the coil has an open secondary so I've ordered a new one from ebay.  I'll keep you posted on how well/if it works.

Vic

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As to the improvised coil setup on my 14A, I did it in this sequence.

1. I placed a push-pull switch on the dash,  2. Ran a 12 gauge wire from the hot or battery side of the dash mounted starter switch to the push-pull switch,  3.  Mounted an old automotive coil inside the frame below the magneto, 4. Ran a 12 gauge wire from the other side of the dash mounted switch to the negative post of the coil (I still use the positive ground system of the tractor, if you have converted to negative ground, put the switch wire to the positive post of the coil), 5. Ran a wire from the positive post on the coil to the kill post on the side of the magneto.  If you still have the wire from the magneto going to the kill switch in the intake manifold, you will need to disconnect it.  The next step will be to open the magneto top coil cover cap and remove the coil wire that goes to the kill stud on the outside side post of the magneto.    You will still leave connected the wire that goes to the points and the kill stud is also fastened to the condenser.  The last step will be to run a longer coil wire from the frame mounted coil to the magneto cap. 

The thing that challenged me a little was the wiring of the coil.  I finally decided that the wire from coil to magneto would be on the same side as the ground on the battery.  That's why I mentioned above that you will need to watch where the polarity is.  As I mentioned earlier, my 14A is 50 miles away and I probably won't get to it for a month or two.  If you still want pictures let me know.  

 

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Now that the -14A has a new (from the -14) mag,  my attention goes back to the -14 & its #1 cylinder.  As soon as I get the coil for the mag that's going back on it, I want to check the compression on that cylinder to start troubleshooting it.  The problem is that I can't find a 23mm (7/8") adaptor for a compression tester.  The other day I made the mistake (the third time) of getting a kit with adaptors that go only to 18mm.  All of the rubber push on adaptors that I've seen or tried just fall into the plug hole.

Vic

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