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2 hours ago, pede said:

All of the portable track presses I've been around are 100tons, have seen the gauge hit 80tons pushing the master out of my 20, usually takes more when not a master. Here is the problem your going to have, those new links will be a different pitch since your putting in an old rail, now add a new sprocket, nice find by the way, and it will chew it up fast. We use to add a new sprocket to old rails to gain another year out of them, sacrifice the sprocket for some longevity, back when you could get this stuff. Last time I checked, new rails/pads/rollers/sprockets were $15,000, $2700 doesn't sound real bad considering the size and weight.    

It will cost me about $5000 for the bottom rollers. If I put new sprockets on that would be $2000. A few new links would be $750 and the labor about $2700 to put them in. So if I do all that I would have over $10,000 in it and the rails and pads on there would still have a lot of wear. The bottom rollers are what is keeping this from doing anything, there’s no way around that. They have to be replaced. I guess the real question is rather or not it is worth spending $5000 to get any more life out of these rails or try to convert them to something else. I will try to post some pictures of the rest of it. 

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2 hours ago, pede said:

All of the portable track presses I've been around are 100tons, have seen the gauge hit 80tons pushing the master out of my 20, usually takes more when not a master. Here is the problem your going to have, those new links will be a different pitch since your putting in an old rail, now add a new sprocket, nice find by the way, and it will chew it up fast. We use to add a new sprocket to old rails to gain another year out of them, sacrifice the sprocket for some longevity, back when you could get this stuff. Last time I checked, new rails/pads/rollers/sprockets were $15,000, $2700 doesn't sound real bad considering the size and weight.    

It will cost me about $5000 for the bottom rollers. If I put new sprockets on that would be $2000. A few new links would be $750 and the labor about $2700 to put them in. So if I do all that I would have over $10,000 in it and the rails and pads on there would still have a lot of wear. The bottom rollers are what is keeping this from doing anything, there’s no way around that. They have to be replaced. I guess the real question is rather or not it is worth spending $5000 to get any more life out of these rails or try to convert them to something else. I will try to post some pictures of the rest of it. 

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2 hours ago, pede said:

All of the portable track presses I've been around are 100tons, have seen the gauge hit 80tons pushing the master out of my 20, usually takes more when not a master. Here is the problem your going to have, those new links will be a different pitch since your putting in an old rail, now add a new sprocket, nice find by the way, and it will chew it up fast. We use to add a new sprocket to old rails to gain another year out of them, sacrifice the sprocket for some longevity, back when you could get this stuff. Last time I checked, new rails/pads/rollers/sprockets were $15,000, $2700 doesn't sound real bad considering the size and weight.    

It will cost me about $5000 for the bottom rollers. If I put new sprockets on that would be $2000. A few new links would be $750 and the labor about $2700 to put them in. So if I do all that I would have over $10,000 in it and the rails and pads on there would still have a lot of wear. The bottom rollers are what is keeping this from doing anything, there’s no way around that. They have to be replaced. I guess the real question is rather or not it is worth spending $5000 to get any more life out of these rails or try to convert them to something else. I will try to post some pictures of the rest of it. 

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2 hours ago, pede said:

All of the portable track presses I've been around are 100tons, have seen the gauge hit 80tons pushing the master out of my 20, usually takes more when not a master. Here is the problem your going to have, those new links will be a different pitch since your putting in an old rail, now add a new sprocket, nice find by the way, and it will chew it up fast. We use to add a new sprocket to old rails to gain another year out of them, sacrifice the sprocket for some longevity, back when you could get this stuff. Last time I checked, new rails/pads/rollers/sprockets were $15,000, $2700 doesn't sound real bad considering the size and weight.    

It will cost me about $5000 for the bottom rollers. If I put new sprockets on that would be $2000. A few new links would be $750 and the labor about $2700 to put them in. So if I do all that I would have over $10,000 in it and the rails and pads on there would still have a lot of wear. The bottom rollers are what is keeping this from doing anything, there’s no way around that. They have to be replaced. I guess the real question is rather or not it is worth spending $5000 to get any more life out of these rails or try to convert them to something else. I will try to post some pictures of the rest of it. 

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2 hours ago, pede said:

All of the portable track presses I've been around are 100tons, have seen the gauge hit 80tons pushing the master out of my 20, usually takes more when not a master. Here is the problem your going to have, those new links will be a different pitch since your putting in an old rail, now add a new sprocket, nice find by the way, and it will chew it up fast. We use to add a new sprocket to old rails to gain another year out of them, sacrifice the sprocket for some longevity, back when you could get this stuff. Last time I checked, new rails/pads/rollers/sprockets were $15,000, $2700 doesn't sound real bad considering the size and weight.    

It will cost me about $5000 for the bottom rollers. If I put new sprockets on that would be $2000. A few new links would be $750 and the labor about $2700 to put them in. So if I do all that I would have over $10,000 in it and the rails and pads on there would still have a lot of wear. The bottom rollers are what is keeping this from doing anything, there’s no way around that. They have to be replaced. I guess the real question is rather or not it is worth spending $5000 to get any more life out of these rails or try to convert them to something else. I will try to post some pictures of the rest of it. 

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This is the video I was talking about, it was in another thread

A 50 ton cyl. is 5"OD a 75 ton 5.75 and 100 ton is 7" OD this one looks about 5"

Bigger tracks  would need more

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Here are u/c wear specs in 25% increments.  To check pitch wear you need to put a block or large pin in the sprocket, then reverse to stretch the track tight.  Measure over 4 good/best links   If pitch is worn very much it will not be happy against new sprockets.  The bushings will want to climb the tooth and accelerate wear.  No good answers when parts are not available.  Wish there was.IMG_20210630_165214824_HDR.thumb.jpg.968fa66b75671e54f367d3ee996e65c7.jpg

Dennis

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Do some looking for Berco roller that are for the Cat roller you are looking for. I have kept up I don't know if Simmal is still around doing after market parts or not. Another place to price the Cat roller that will adapt is Regal. Also F P Smith here in Calif has used at times.

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59 minutes ago, farmalldr said:

Here are u/c wear specs in 25% increments.  To check pitch wear you need to put a block or large pin in the sprocket, then reverse to stretch the track tight.  Measure over 4 good/best links   If pitch is worn very much it will not be happy against new sprockets.  The bushings will want to climb the tooth and accelerate wear.  No good answers when parts are not available.  Wish there was.IMG_20210630_165214824_HDR.thumb.jpg.968fa66b75671e54f367d3ee996e65c7.jpg

Dennis

,,,Right on, Dennis..but, none the less, I like factory spec sprockets in an old  worn chain, and with excavators , expect another 1000  hours .....not so much in   "Dozer" situation....

As "Pede"   says....the sprocket becomes "sacrificial".....but it is a very cheap way to coax  those extra miles out of the chains....

Hence..I have spent considerable time building up , now  "obsolete "  sprokets....

Mike

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1 hour ago, Ian Beale said:

FWIW  Another track supplier

http://www.group-itm.com/en/products/undercarriage-components/track-chains

The case hardeened old diesel bloke I dealt with rated them ahead of Berco

Page 8 here

http://www.group-itm.com/Media/Prodotti/PDF/ITM_Undercarriage Solutions and Components_web.pdf

lists agents and seems like Titan for you

The last chains I got for the AD7  were ITM...Good Stuff

....and D-F- P.......if you look at those  "links  "...(no pun intended....!!!)...you will notice the new style "Master   Link"...

..no longer Master Pin   and Master Bush.....

Mike

 

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I've seen way worse sprockets, ones so sharp they will cut you, and as for the pads, loader pads aren't much anyways. You get the rollers sorted out, fix the bad links and I'd run it for a while, just keep them tight. Keep in mind that most of my experiences are based on daily runners, 8-10hrs, 6 days a week and not a weekend warrior so my fixes tend to be a bit different.  

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On 6/29/2021 at 3:24 PM, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Well… I hate to sound too cheap, but Komatsu gave me an estimate of $2,700 to put five new links in these rails. And that’s if I take them off and deliver them to their door, much, much more if they come out. If I cut the old links apart how much force would be required to press the new stuff in? 50 ton? 100 ton? Is $2,700 a good chunk of any pin press available for sale? If it is I would rather just have my own press than give them the $2,700. I have heard crazy prices for OTC presses ($10,000+), but are there other ones available?

Here is a pic of a homemade track press MB Cat made, sandwiched in 2 I beams, 45 gal drums for a base and conveyor, he said the old IH didn’t require as much pressure as Cat of the time, TD14 was around 40 tons and he figured TD18 would be similar maybe a bit more, sorry used to have better pics of the whole thing

 

62BBA1DA-0251-4545-A024-8A1EF3859229.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, pede said:

and as for the pads, loader pads aren't much anyways. You get the rollers sorted out, fix the bad links and I'd run it for a while,

right on the money

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38 minutes ago, hardtail said:

Here is a pic of a homemade track press MB Cat made, sandwiched in 2 I beams, 45 gal drums for a base and conveyor, he said the old IH didn’t require as much pressure as Cat of the time, TD14 was around 40 tons and he figured TD18 would be similar maybe a bit more, sorry used to have better pics of the whole thing

 

62BBA1DA-0251-4545-A024-8A1EF3859229.jpeg

You can see the master bushing shorter than all the others here, there would be 2 spacers to make up the extra height but aren’t laying there, think he was doing a single push at a time, production presses had double push for a link at a time for speed

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Yes, if you just have to fix a few links, and your tracks are tired, using master pins and bushings are an ok way to get by. Now, you can make any bushing you have a master bushing by trimming the ends flush with the link, but if the bushings are broke through, they're trash. Bushings (master type) can be installed on a link in the field with 2- 8 pound hammers, one in each hand. Have to be master bushings since you'd just be driving them on until they're flush with the edge of the link. Obviously you can't set bushing depth of a regular length bushing on a link with sledges. You can also press the bushings on in a regular shop press if they're master type, if not you could use big sockets so the bushing will push through the link into the socket, you'd use the socket on one side with a flat plate on the other until you're depth is good on one side, then move the socket and the flat plate to the opposite side of the link to set the depth of that side as well. One thing to remember, if you're doing this in the field, you use the master bushing technique since regular bushings won't pass between the links on the adjoining link, unless you're using a portable press to push each link on as you go. Much easier on marginal tracks to just push the bushing end of a pair of links together in mating pairs and then driving a pin through them on the machine. Always hand drive pins through at the sprocket, halfway up the sprocket, that's the easiest way, and always have the pad bolted onto the link that has the pin boss you're driving the pin through, otherwise you'll just be spreading the link trying to drive the pin through. You can hand drive a regular pin, they'll just drive hard all the way through, unlike a master pin that is slightly turned down in the center. Cool the pins and warm the links before you drive them if you're not a good sledge operator. A worn pin can be reused if need be and if it isn't too wore out, and is just like a master pin. It'll drive easy since the center is worn down. Also, remember, always wrap the tracks under the machine, bushing end goes under first. Start the bushing end under the sprocket, no pad on that link only,  hook a good long chain to that end bushing, run it up and over the front idler and over the tcr's, and next to the sprocket. Now pull straight back on it until you can get it up on top of the sprocket. If you have to stop and rehook shorter, go for it. Get that bushing link pulled around far enough it will land on the center of the rear of the sprocket. Oh yeah, release the track adjuster fitting if it's grease, or back the adjuster all the way off before you pull the track over. Leave the pad off that first link, that will allow you to swing your hammer through that gap to drive the pin in. Set the machine down on the rail before it starts to pull the pin end of the rail too far underneath the machine. If you're by yourself, no machine to wrap tracks, you can usually wrap the tracks the way I described, but wrap the end of the chain around the final drive or sprocket to winch it up and over, just chain it right so you don't tear anything up as the chain spins around. If you're just trying to get by for a while, master pin and master bushing fix will work just fine. If the pins are loose because the links are whopped, run a weld around them. And welding a broken link is just fine, they weld easy, and work just as good. If you want to do it right with all new pins and bushings, pay someone to do it, there is a reason track press tooling has tooling for all different sized pins and bushings with all different depths for each to set them just so. If they aren't pressed to the right depth on either, the pads won't fit. If you have time to kill, and the ability to make tooling to set the depth correctly on the pin and bushing at the same time, a shop press would work, but a whole rail is a lot to handle without a roller bed to set the rail on. It would be very time consuming. Tooling and saddles were constantly getting worn out, and most saddles were around $1500, and all of the track tooling was around $35,000. With the right tooling, an actual track press with a roller bed to lay the rail out on, I could run both sets of medium sized dozer tracks up on the press, take the pads off, press them apart, press the new pins and bushings back in, and bolt the pads back on in anywhere from 8-10 hours. Most dozer tracks were narrow enough you only had to take the bolts out of one side and leave one of the links bolted to the pad, that saved a lot of time. Could do that on machines that had pads less than 30". Clear as mud right?

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  • 2 weeks later...

....on one of the smaller IH track loaders , I had, the machine was due to be traded, and we were faced with same issues  as DFP  has.....track pins locked in the bush (s)...thus  chewed out a large hole in the female end of the track link....So..because the 125  was heading down the road...we welded those pins in...but used the arc air to 'ream ' out the meat on the link , be very carefull to protect the pins....although the odd chunk out of the pin enabled  the fusion properties of 7018 to really get a grip on them....

Never worried about precision alignment., in relation to the dead center of the link..... A few minute measuements  out would never bother partially worn  chains and sprockets......Another plus was the intense  heat seemed to ''free'' up most of the frozen bushes.....The loader went to a small offshore Island near where I live...Some many  months later, I was down there logging...and the old Loader was doing fine....I noticed only one pin had broken the welds....and this because of a mess of welding on the pinboss...Asked the new owner...he told me one pin was ''loose''so he weldedsome sort of hideous ''patch'' over it.....which was scraping the stone guard....!!!

Might be worth a try, DFP....

Mike

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I have been busy, but this has still been on my mind. I did locate two NOS sprockets and enough parts to make both master links and four regular links for the rails, which is enough to fix all the bad links that I have with a few parts for spares. I have just been trying to convince myself to turn loose of the money. It’s about $2,750 shipped to my door. I plan to post updates as they occur. Thanks for all the input. 

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  • 1 month later...

5B5FA93A-A4BC-43E5-A563-C7EE306AE236.thumb.jpeg.5633cec69d9d0f2b4a84374933af8003.jpeg

I unloaded my pallet of parts this morning from Brown International, about 550 lbs. It’s been in transit for quite some time. It is apparently hard to get through the Canadian border or something. Two sprockets and enough pins, bushings and link parts to make six complete new links. 

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4 minutes ago, just Dave said:

Still waiting on those rollers?  Time ti build that track press!

I have one Cat roller that is supposed to be able to be adapted on the frame. I have not made any progress on that yet. I need to get one of the OEM rollers pulled off and see what we’ve got. 

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