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856 vs 1456 rear housings/ 3pt


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I would like to put a 3pt hitch system off of a 1456 (or similar) on an 856 that originally had a 2pt hitch that was converted to 3pt.  Been all through the worthless CIH digital parts book tonight trying to compare some things, but still have unanswered questions.  I sent them another email too, by the way, telling them what all information I found missing in the 8/1456 books.  

What I need to know: 

Will the torsion tube from a 1456 (or an early 1066) fit into the hole in the housing on an 856?  I think I can just use the heavier 3pt arms on the smaller lower arm mount, using a bushing, but I just can't get enough parts information to confirm it.  I managed to find part numbers for the lower pins that go through the arms between the 8 and 14, and the part number is different by one end number, so I'm assuming the pins are different, but different how?  Length? Diameter?  Can I just bushing it?  I do have a 14 to compare too, but it is buried in a shed 3 or 4 miles away and not something easy to get out.  I can go look, but tough to compare that way.  If I could get them side by side, it would be easy.  Maybe @Long Farms has ran into this?  I think, judging by the o-ring size listed, that the torsion shaft on an 856 is around 3.25" while the 14 is 3.75", but I can't confirm that.  I would have thought the housings were the same, but perhaps not?  Again, fine with using a bushing on the lower pin if there is room to get the heavier arms into the lower "saddle".  

Just to be sure, the other question is rockshaft size.  Near as I can tell, all tractors used the same rockshaft, even the 15 series.  Just different pressures and lift arms.  I'm not trying to do this swap to gain anything other than stability, safety, and future repairs.  The older lighter duty arms and such on the 856 are worn out, possible requiring many parts and machine work.  I can get a heavy duty set up from salvage for what I think is a worthwhile price to get the heavier hitch.  We use this 856 on a 12 row cultivator now, and I assure you the current hitch is at max limit with it on it. 

My great granddad bought this tractor new, and it has around 13,000 hours on it.  As stated, it was originally a 2pt tractor that was converted to 3pt, I *think* in the late 80's.  I remember we had the cab removed to do rear end work and when it came back it had a different 3pt on it.  I think prior to this, we were still using the 2pt arms with adapters.  This hitch is either aftermarket, or made by a local welding shop, not sure and no one can remember.  We used the 3pt on this tractor very heavily, even during my nearly 30 years of running it.  It was nearly always on 3pt equipment.  The poor hitch is just worn out.  I think the heavier rockshaft arms and vertical arms would be a big improvement carrying a 12 row cultivator.  The 856 is great on the cultivator and has no issues lifting it.  I ran a 30' JD rotary hoe on it for years and years.  Prior to my time, it had an 8 row wide cultivator on it, which is just almost the same size as the 12 row 30" cultivator, so it's not too much for the machine.... don't need any of those comments. 

Anyone ever do a swap like this? 

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  • J-Mech changed the title to 856 vs 1456 rear housings/ 3pt

The torsion bar will fit. You will have to change the bushings as the 1456 is a bigger diameter.

 

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Thank you both! That is what I needed to know.  

I've put tubes and bushings in before, so I know what I'm getting into.  I'm not too worried.  Like I said, the 3pt on this tractor is well used, and due to the leaks, well lubricated.  Disassembly shouldn't be an issue.  I just needed to know that the larger draft tube would fit so a final decision could be made.  Thanks again! 

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I can answer 2 of your questions. Yes I have done this before. Next the 2 bushings and seals for the upper rockshaft are the same but the rockshaft is longer to fit the category 3 upper arms. You have to change the upper rockshaft. 

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37 minutes ago, IH FARMS said:

I can answer 2 of your questions. Yes I have done this before. Next the 2 bushings and seals for the upper rockshaft are the same but the rockshaft is longer to fit the category 3 upper arms. You have to change the upper rockshaft. 

Ok!  I'll add that to the list.  Top may be coming off anyway to fix other issues. 

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5 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Anyone seen lower arms like these?

20210223_111406.thumb.jpg.3823405da52036b3a7595ab6d0ee47e5.jpg

The pull arm and lift arm look like an early 06 setup that the lift arm I think is the same as a fast hitch tractor. They look the same I've never measured them. The sway limiter bar looks shop built.

Look kinda light duty and I see it has no slide out at the implement end. Maybe thats what your question was about. That part I'm not sure I have seen. 

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I have most of a 1066 three point on an 856 that was originally fast hitch.  I used the 856 rock shaft, just used longer bolts and flat washers to out the arms on.  I used the drawbar support from the fast hitch and cut the ears for fast hitch sway blocks off.  Then I fabricated sway blocks from steel to bolt on the fast hitch drawbar support and then blocks I can add or remove from the three point arms that way I didn't have to change the torsion bar.  I have used it with a double round bales for with two 5x6 bales on it.

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You guys are on the right track , everyone here is right . done a few upgrades from 2pt to 3pt and lots of lower shafts and bushings. To fix and gut em for pulling.

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9 hours ago, 801486 said:

I used the 856 rock shaft, just used longer bolts and flat washers to out the arms on. 

I thought about this yesterday after my last post.  That is likely what we'll do.

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6 minutes ago, Dan Robinson said:

I've never seen a fabricated sway limiter like that. Pretty interesting. Toplink bracket i have before. 

That's why I asked.  I've never seen anything like it before on any other IH either.  Like I said, we had it put on in the late 80's/early 90's.  I wonder if a local shop made it, or????

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Just learned something I didn't know.  One of the complaints we had with this 3pt was it just didn't quit lift the cultivator high enough.  Just found out why.  Apparently there are two positions for the rockshaft arms.  When this tractor was switched from 2pt to 3pt, the arm position was never changed.  New one on me! 

20210224_135154.thumb.jpg.dd1213f7622c4b524e07c2ac3d947c01.jpg

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14 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Just learned something I didn't know.  One of the complaints we had with this 3pt was it just didn't quit lift the cultivator high enough.  Just found out why.  Apparently there are two positions for the rockshaft arms.  When this tractor was switched from 2pt to 3pt, the arm position was never changed.  New one on me! 

20210224_135154.thumb.jpg.dd1213f7622c4b524e07c2ac3d947c01.jpg

yep,exactly been there found them

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On 2/23/2021 at 12:47 PM, J-Mech said:

Ok!  I'll add that to the list.  Top may be coming off anyway to fix other issues. 

I just put washers in to fill the little bit of a gap that was in there on mine, still the same amount of spline as the 856 so it's strong enough. I did all this on my fake 1206 wheatland clone. Getting the old bushing out on the bottom suxxxxxxxxxxx.

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On 2/24/2021 at 1:55 PM, J-Mech said:

Just learned something I didn't know.  One of the complaints we had with this 3pt was it just didn't quit lift the cultivator high enough.  Just found out why.  Apparently there are two positions for the rockshaft arms.  When this tractor was switched from 2pt to 3pt, the arm position was never changed.  New one on me! 

20210224_135154.thumb.jpg.dd1213f7622c4b524e07c2ac3d947c01.jpg

That is an interesting detail. My 756 is two point, 826 is three. At some point they may become the same if I come into the parts. Kind of a long term idea there!

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7 minutes ago, DT Fan said:

That is an interesting detail. My 756 is two point, 826 is three. At some point they may become the same if I come into the parts. Kind of a long term idea there!

I am swapping my fast hitch on the 756 with a friend who has a 756 with 3 point. He has more fast hitch implements he can use it on.   A 3 point would be great for me!

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On 2/24/2021 at 12:01 PM, J-Mech said:

More pictures of the aftermarket  (??) 3pt.....

All welds are from a stick welder. 

20210224_115450.thumb.jpg.a113a2eb3bfec315745e1b4132d52b57.jpg20210224_115507.thumb.jpg.180946a7478a06672a5d5fa465913925.jpg

 

The third link bracket is actually an anti rare bar bracket for a semi mount plow or a copy of one.  I've got one of the anti rare bars hanging in the shed.  I was at an auction and told the auctioneer what it was and he said you're the only one who knows what it is so you better buy it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Used cat 3 hitch was delivered today.  I've got 2 tractors apart at the farm and the 856 is second priority.  I will update when I get to the install.  Pallet was missing one of the parts that was supposed to be with it, and I thought we were getting the rockshaft arms as well, but figured out they weren't included.... darn it.... so they are looking for a set.  Price to convert just went up.  Not my tractor, but I was happy with the price we got the hitch for.  Disappointed the arms weren't there.  

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