Jump to content

How's green energy working in Texas ?


Recommended Posts

Wind mill farms do studies on wind speeds and number of days the wind can make a  wind turbine operate. There are wind turbines operating in Antarctiic at the Princess Elisabeth base. The zero-emmission base is powered by solar and wind energy . All the wind mill farms were working in Ohio  and Indiana  of course the had cold weather equipment for cold weather and maintenance.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The suburban and rural folks who work hard and keep the country running are outshouted and out maneuvered politically by the liberals time and time again because regular folks work,  don't riot, expec

Hang in there, Al Gore is on the way!

Bought a small generator here in town. Out at farm we had a winco pto. Way back when I was young dad bought it during a major outage. They were without power for 2 weeks in 1976 after a ice storm ,bli

Posted Images

"

It was falsely reported that only 5 gw of wind went offline, leaving 5 gw remaining.
That is a fiddled figure.

Texas installed wind capacity is 30 gw, which COULD have all operated given the right conditions. So in reality 25 gw of wind was offline – which demonstrates the complete unreliability of wind. And wind suppliers have done NOTHING to build in backup storage facilities. If Texas went all renewable, it would require 6,000 gwh of backup energy – just for electricity, not including transport or heating. At present Texas has less than 10 gwh of storage facilities."

And more at

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/02/texas-day-four-without-power-and-water-for-some/#comment-2407530

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The two wind farms in my area were working just fine when it got down to -40.  I’m not one of those liberal green save the earth people but using the Texas wind farms as an example of needing more fossil fuel power plants is not going to work.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Dirtscooter5 said:

There is also the issue of Texas being on their own power grid to avoid Federal regulations, did this help or hurt them? 

Pretty sure California is in the Western states grid and it didn't help them last summer.

If you want to have power all the time you need a backup generator because the weather can cause a lot of transmission line failures as well.

We have been through events, 3-4 days without power, in the summer and winter several times from down lines.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Green energy boosters don't tend to mention "cascade failure"

"

As I understand it, there were also some units tripping off line as the frequency left spec and might cause damage. A “Cascade Failure”.

First the windmills stop / freeze so supplies are marginal and frequency sags, then some minor plants start to trip; and then the wallop as the Nuke drops out and then a big cascade of frequency sag / disconnect / shutdown… etc. etc. etc.

The difference between a stable grid and an unstable grid is “reserve capacity” and they just did not have enough spinning reserve to handle the various dropouts all coming at once."

https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2021/02/15/texas-cold-dark-might-do-it/#comment-139844

Not helped by wind doing a "whore's drawers" output suddenly.  

IIRC they had a big blackout in UK due to this and were only saved from a "grid cold start" by some quick switching that kept some of the fossil fuel stations rolling.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And Tony here goes into the nuts and bolts of "rolling reserve" - about Australia but you'll get the idea

"

In addition to all this, there is the problem related to what was once used, something called ….. ‘rolling reserve’. That was something which meant that there would not be blackouts.

There were the usual major power plants, with four large Units, and they delivered their power constantly.

The older coal fired plants were still kept around and ready to operate in short bursts when required. They always knew when they would be needed, when the majors were scheduled to have a Unit down for maintenance. So, those older plants were kept humming along, hot and ready, with a Unit or two ready to take up the slack is needed, just one Unit operating sometimes two. Also, in the Summers and Winters, they were also kept ready in case extra power was needed.

Everything ran smoothly.

Then along comes CO2 induced AGW.

Whole States now got (politically) scared ….. “If we don’t do something the greens will see to it that we don’t get the votes we need”

So, they closed those old backup plants, thinking that natural gas fired plants could ‘cover’ for those maintenance periods, and now they could claim proudly they were shutting down coal fired plants.

All those closures here in Australia were those older plants, used SOLELY as rolling reserve, with Hazelwood the exception, a still operational major, but perceived as at the end of its life.

Trouble was coal fired Units were 500MW. Gas fired Units were 150MW to 300MW tops, so instead of needing one, they now needed three of them, some of them also old.

The wind came in. Then solar came in, then rooftop solar also added to the complacency

Even those gas fired (CO2 emitting) plants were now not viable, so they also shut down.

And hey, there’s a monstrously humungous 8132MW of wind power, enough to cover anything.

Trouble is no one understands that 8132MW Nameplate for wind only delivers 2400MW of power. All that solar plant power is only 17% of Nameplate. All that rooftop power is only 13% of Nameplate. (and only consumed in the residential sector anyway)

So now, there is ….. NO rolling reserve, and when there are problems, then wind power fails to deliver its 30% of Nameplate, so the grid is stressed, then the backup gas plants fail, then those coal fired majors are now hopelessly overloaded, so they go down too.

Renewable Ideology has led to complacency in the reliable electrical power generating sector, so that when we have situations like this, and the majors end up failing, ….. then the whole blame can be immediately shifted to the failure of the ….. majors.

Sound familiar?

Tony."

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/02/texas-20-dead-many-now-going-50-hours-plus-without-electricity-heating-water/#comment-2406925

And make sure that you understand the difference between "NAMEPLATE" which is usually advertised and the "CAPACITY FACTOR" actually delivered - < 30% for both wind and solar.  Anyone advertising a vehicle horsepower like this would be up for false advertising.

Just imagine the response of the proud new owner when he mentioned his new 100 hp truck and had it explained that he actually had the "shaved radiator cap and double overhead dipsticks model of < 30 hp"

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

"Texas was prepared for global warming but not the return of the cold"

"Indeed Texas has the fifth largest windpower fleet in the world — bigger than everyone except China, the USA, Germany and India. But having that industrial fleet of free clean energy didn’t save Texas this week. What happened appears to have been a systemic wide failure on so many levels. But one of those levels surely, is the failure to winterize the grid. There are plenty of gas and wind plants in colder places like Canada and they run through winter just fine."

"Renewables fans will point to this as mere incompetence. But if the government had built the “fifth largest nation” of windmills with all the cold bells and whistles, it would make them even more unaffordable.  Anyone with infinite money can make wind plants more useful in cold weather, but it makes them more expensive all year."

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/02/texas-was-prepared-for-global-warming-but-not-the-return-of-the-cold/

And in comments

"’‘Instead Texas spent most of the last decade and billions of dollars trying to cool the world by changing its electricity grid.‘‘

And they succeeded.  "

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/02/texas-was-prepared-for-global-warming-but-not-the-return-of-the-cold/#comment-2407572

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Please excuse my number of posts but it is looking worse

"

Okay then, now think about this, after what has happened during the last four days or so.

Contrary to what some have said, even here, wind turbines do not do well in cold weather, as they found out in Minnesota ten years or so back now, something which has gotten lost now in the mists of time.

Lubricating oil.

These wind towers when stopped for extended periods of time, and mind you, here I am just talking of hours, need to be turned over so that the major shaft bearings do not brinell, because if that does happen, then the bearings have to be checked and replaced, easier just to replace them really. To make certain this does not happen, the shaft needs to be rotated, hence the blades rotate, giving the impression that the turbine is generating power. Hence when you look at wind graphs (at Aneroid etc) you occasionally see a wind plant delivering negative power, eg, drawing power from the grid, this is what is happening when they are all stopped and the whole plant is back at zero. Now, I have said that a wind plant NEVER delivers its Nameplate, in fact never really even all that close to it. When individual towers shut down at a wind plant site, they draw some of their own generated power from the other working turbines at that plant to turn over those stopped plants every so often.

Okay, Minnesota and the cold ten years back. The lubricating oil froze hence no lubrication, hence no turning, hence bearings r00ted. So, all the turbines had to be individually checked, and most replaced. They (sort of) fixed this by adding the drawing of grid power to keep that oil at the operating temperature. Then there was also the problem of the icing of the blades, leading to imbalances in the blades, and the resultant loss of some blades. so deicing came in and surface compounds to (sort of) repel the ice from the blades. (Yeah right!)

Okay then, background scene painted.

Now we have Texas, and all their towers have been now stopped cold for many days.

Let’s look at a large scale 500MW() coal fired unit first then, shall we. Maintenance. Ground level. ONE unit. Shut it down, go in, do the service and the checks, walk out, start up.

Same Nameplate now of 500MW only wind turbines, so (average 2.5MW) we now have 200 turbines, so two maybe three large wind plants spread across large areas, (two to three of them)

Working at height, working inside the nacelle, so working in a confined space. Probable hire of a helicopter to lower them onto the platform, rather than climbing the equivalent 40 stories up a vertical ladder, carrying all the gear in a backpack plus. Two to three hours each nacelle, now multiplied by 200 times. for each nacelle. Plus parts plus labour.

The cost will be horrendous.

And, no power output until they are all completed.

But hey, wind power is cheaper than fossil fuelled power, eh!

Tony."

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/02/texas-was-prepared-for-global-warming-but-not-the-return-of-the-cold/#comment-2407639

And the question would be - can you change those bearings with the nacelle in place or does it have to be lowered?

In comments below this are some estimates of costs to repair.  So those wind turbines now running - were their bearings checked or is that a desperate grab for money and will Texas get a free "blade throwing show"?

 

 

Edited by Ian Beale
extra
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian, thanks for the expertise on wind power, and power generation in general.

As is so often the case, what seems to be readily apparent turns out to be complicated by factors that most have never heard of.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, zleinenbach said:

Thanks for that!! Really puts it into the “can’t argue with that logic” category!

Thanks for that.  Seems perfectly obvious to the likes of you and I but remember what George Carlin said about voters

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing in the Texas energy disaster quote that is wrong. They quote North Dakota cold air temps won’t let windmills ice up. This is misleading as we do get some very cold temps we also get some days of rising temps creating freezing fog. I don’t know if you guys any place else get this but a major problem with power lines big and small is frost buildup on certain days then a 20 mph wind. The lines freeze up almost 5 inches around from fog wind picks up and miles of poles snap. This is same phenomenon that decommissioned Texas windmills

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing most of us have forgot........................... you can't fool mother nature she is a cruel b!tch and will bite you in the azz every time

Link to post
Share on other sites

Alberta de regulated their power industry in around 2004, prices have increased almost 300%, though not directly on kWh prices, all the minimum charges, generation fees and distribution charges and billing frequency that have accounted for the increase, power price changes every 15 mins as a real time usage, the major players bought a percentage of the grid at the time of de regulation for over a billion, then cheque’s of $450 were mailed to every resident, didn’t take long to recover their original investment, one company has repeatedly been caught dropping out generators to drive the price up and investment in natural gas generators that can come online quickly at peak times when the price is favourable 

Ian great contribution to this thread 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Larger commercial boilers are equipped with both hi and lo gas pressure switches on the gas train here, not saying that is an answer if the supply line ruptures, my Dad has said they used to weld on live pressurized lines in the old days for repair

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Gearclash said:

I don’t see hydro on that graph . . . 

My opinion, the Chinese knew very well what they wanted when they built the 3 Gorges Dam.

"Just below a dark green line (that is hydro) below the lighter green labeled “nuclear” you can find the yellow “wind & solar” and such line. Look hard. It’s a tiny wedge at the right side.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And it's never taught or even considered anymore, because of the so called modern school of thought at the public indoctrination centers and many private & christian schools as well.

Anytime some college aged kid says to me what they plan on studying in college and their intended major, my first question is always: "whats your back up plan"..... They respond with a blank look and have no clue what I'm talking about. "If you want to hear God laugh, tell him your plans".

Our society has become so dependent upon "technology" saving the day. That worked out swell in Texas and other states now didn't it? 

 ANY plan needs a backup, any scenario needs a backup.

Heres my example: I'm dependent upon Solar for all my electric needs due to distance & cost of grid power.

My backup plan for that is a small gen used for misc. My back up plan for that is a larger gen I use for welder & comp etc. High startup amp stuff. 

My heat is from a wood stove. My backup for that is propane.

My cooking is propane. My backup for that is the wood stove.....

One is none - two is one - three is - maybe I need a backup. And why do you say, do I need a backup?

This simple statement:

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them to obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
Robert A. Heinlen
 Emphasis on morally responsible for everything I do. My safety, thoughts, actions, outcome of everything I do. I and I alone am responsible for my time on earth. And that boys and girls, is why you need backup.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of u r saying the windmills up north were fine. I can’t speak to there mechanical abilities, But if u look at the miso market I posted (North Dakota into Minnesota and south down to The edge of Texas.) the Megwatts of wind we’re 1800 up to 3000 or so. Should be 18 to 25 thousand available. You can’t BS those facts. Without coal at 50 to 60 percent with nuclear and some natural gas we would of froze our asses off

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...