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best 100 hp new tractor for hay and ranch use (off brand)


jamesf
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We've been thinking about getting a new tractor for our farm to do hay and utility work.  Largest thing it would need to do is pull a 568 Deere baler about 200 bales/ year on a flat field.

Unfortunately there isn't a case dealer near where I live anymore so I've pretty much narrowed it down between a 5100E Deere or a M5-111 Kubota. 

Does anyone have any experience with these tractors?  I've never had a Tier 4 tractor before so all of that concerns me.  It will only get about 200 hours/ year use.

I'm going to keep my Case 5230 as a backup when it gets back from the shop. (It's about to have to get split to get the transmission fixed.)

From driving them around the dealer lot and talking to the sales people:

I like the cab layout of the Deere better but I'm concerned with the build quality of the E.  Deere would love to see my buy a 5100M but that's a lot more $$$

Deere doesn't seem very confident in the 5100E pulling a 568 baler.  Kubota is very confident that the M5-111 will do great with that size baler and they have lots of people doing it.  (strange to me since they are very similar spec wise.  (This may have to with Deere trying to get me in a 5100M)

The Deere salesman says they have very few issues with the emissions equipment on their tractors.  Kubota seems to be less confident.  They've cautioned me about the DEF injector getting stoped up from infrequent use and other issues. I've got a bobcat the same V3800 kubota engine and had been great but it's a 2013 pre-emission.  I know a lot of people swear by Kubota stuff.  Has Deere really had a better track record with their emissions equipment than other brands?

I have a little bit more of a relationship with the Deere dealer but not much.  We've only bought a side x side and some implements from them in the past.

 

 

 

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We have Kubota small grounds equipment at work, constantly in and out of shop on warranty with emissions and DEF issues, though those guys don’t necessarily run or maintain equipment properly in all fairness 

Im not impressed with your Deere salesman either especially if they are knowingly trying to up sell something you don’t need 

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1 hour ago, jamesf said:

We've been thinking about getting a new tractor for our farm to do hay and utility work.  Largest thing it would need to do is pull a 568 Deere baler about 200 bales/ year on a flat field.

Unfortunately there isn't a case dealer near where I live anymore so I've pretty much narrowed it down between a 5100E Deere or a M5-111 Kubota. 

Does anyone have any experience with these tractors?  I've never had a Tier 4 tractor before so all of that concerns me.  It will only get about 200 hours/ year use.

I'm going to keep my Case 5230 as a backup when it gets back from the shop. (It's about to have to get split to get the transmission fixed.)

From driving them around the dealer lot and talking to the sales people:

I like the cab layout of the Deere better but I'm concerned with the build quality of the E.  Deere would love to see my buy a 5100M but that's a lot more $$$

Deere doesn't seem very confident in the 5100E pulling a 568 baler.  Kubota is very confident that the M5-111 will do great with that size baler and they have lots of people doing it.  (strange to me since they are very similar spec wise.  (This may have to with Deere trying to get me in a 5100M)

The Deere salesman says they have very few issues with the emissions equipment on their tractors.  Kubota seems to be less confident.  They've cautioned me about the DEF injector getting stoped up from infrequent use and other issues. I've got a bobcat the same V3800 kubota engine and had been great but it's a 2013 pre-emission.  I know a lot of people swear by Kubota stuff.  Has Deere really had a better track record with their emissions equipment than other brands?

I have a little bit more of a relationship with the Deere dealer but not much.  We've only bought a side x side and some implements from them in the past.

 

 

 

We have a 5100E.  For haying we use ours on the square baler and V rake. Works great for both those jobs.  They are 100 engine hp and 85 pto which is about the same as the 4020 we used to have.  We have almost 1,000 hrs on it now with no issues including emissions.  I'd be more concerned with the M/R series because there would be more stuff to go wrong.  The E series is as basic as you can get today for a tractor.  Everything except the direction reverser has a manual direct connection just like the old tractors.  Very minimum of sensors and switches.  I agree that your JD dealer would love to see you by the M but they are not totally wrong and might be trying to cover their ass because 5100 series are light weight and the M series do weigh slightly more then the Es.  On our operation, there is no way I would put our 5100E in front of our round baler.  The 5100 probably could handle it but you would be right on the edge for hp and weight.  For what you do you might be fine.  These tractors built today getting more hp squeezed out of a more compact design.  It just feels like you can build two 5100s out of the materials it took to build a 4020.  If you get a loader you absolutely need weights on the back/wheels.  I know that's a "duh" statement but you can tip ours over if you lift the bucket full of whatever and turn the wheel to either side without even moving.  The loader out strips the tractor's capability to be stable mostly do to the fact the bucket is 10 miles in front of the axle.  

 

 

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I don't have experience with the model you listed, but we have a 7060 kubota that has 2k hours on it now. We bought it new and the only thing we have done is regular maintenance. It is used daily for feeding. We have used it on a discbine before, square baled, rake, etc. And it is the loader tractor for the square bale accumulator. It starts at 0 without being plugged up. It's a fwa and they turn very deep. The only aggravating thing is at times it wants to regen when you don't want it to, but we just gear down and up the rpms and let it do its thing while we do ours. The 7060 doesn't use def, so I don't know how the def tractors are

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Don't know where you call home but it's been cold here. Can't seem to find it's way above zero. 

Neighbor has been having DEF freezing issues, derating his feed tractor. NH T something. 

I Spun new fuel filters on the 1486 before the cold hit (last ones put on before haying) and splashed in some #1 and gettin' cows fed everyday. 

minus 21 tonight. 

Do you really want to mess with the new emissions on a tractor that only gets 200 hrs a year?

disclaimer: I'm a tightazz and can get by with a lot less tractor than most. 

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We bought a 5603 new. Older version of the 5100E. I’m very disappointed with it. The engineers designed a good tractor ( the 5625 ) then they stripped it down and reengineered it to be as cheap as possible to compete on state dot buying contracts. The 3 point is completely mechanical. Great idea except they put the lever too close to the seat and too far back. My elbow hits the back of the cab so I have to stick my elbow out to the side like a chicken wing to operate it. The pto clutch is a dry clutch and the factory plugged the cavity on the bottom. Water got in and seized it up. We had to split it to free it up. There were many complaints from people who said the water got in on the dealers lot and without a drain seized up later. The pto lever slams forward so hard it is hammering a slot in the steel cover. The mfwd is a gear that can only be engaged with the tractor stoped and even then it’s not friendly. 

If you can afford a new tractor then spend a little more to get the tractor like it was originally designed with the good ergonomics and ease of use.

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42 minutes ago, sandhiller said:

Do you really want to mess with the new emissions on a tractor that only gets 200 hrs a year?

I can totally relate to this.   I almost bought a new tractor back in 2016 and ended up buying the Case 5230 instead because I shied away from the emissions stuff.  I've also got a Ford 7710 and a Ford 7000.  All are good older tractors but all of them are getting long in the tooth and are having more and more issues. We just need one that works when we need it too so my thought was to trade them all off on a new one that we could depend on.  

I'd love to get a hold of a cream puff, low hour pre-emission machine but those are hard to come by.  That's what I attempted to do with the Case 5230 but we've had quite a few issues with it.  Maybe i didn't go new enough, maybe I just got a bit of bad luck on it but my dad's kind of **** bent on getting a new one at this point ?.

I'm going to hold on to the case for a while until I'm sure whatever we get will do what we need it to do.

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36 minutes ago, MarkG said:

We bought a 5603 new. Older version of the 5100E. I’m very disappointed with it.  

If you can afford a new tractor then spend a little more to get the tractor like it was originally designed with the good ergonomics and ease of use.

I didn't realize the E series was an evolution of the 03 series.  

Point taken if I go the Deere route it would be smart money to go the M route.  That just puts the Deere $15K more than the Kubota which doesn't seem to make sense on paper.

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3 minutes ago, jamesf said:

I can totally relate to this.   I almost bought a new tractor back in 2016 and ended up buying the Case 5230 instead because I shied away from the emissions stuff.  I've also got a Ford 7710 and a Ford 7000.  All are good older tractors but all of them are getting long in the tooth and are having more and more issues. We just need one that works when we need it too so my thought was to trade them all off on a new one that we could depend on.  

I'd love to get a hold of a cream puff, low hour pre-emission machine but those are hard to come by.  That's what I attempted to do with the Case 5230 but we've had quite a few issues with it.  Maybe i didn't go new enough, maybe I just got a bit of bad luck on it but my dad's kind of **** bent on getting a new one at this point ?.

I'm going to hold on to the case for a while until I'm sure whatever we get will do what we need it to do.

I would highly recommend an older Magnum!! I don’t like the power shift on a loader, but they are probably the most dependable tractor made in the last 30 years. 

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1 hour ago, Missouri Mule said:

I'll be the odd duck out and say neither. I'd look into a cherry low houred tier 3 tractor. No warranty but you can save 10k or more. 

We bought a 6230 2WD at work last winter to bed cows.  We already had 2 of them so we knew they were good.  Tier 3 Engine 12 speed synchro plus with LH reverser, remotes are cables.  Cab with A/C.  I think it is a 2011.  It had 2600 hours.    It was about 35k.  No emissions.  We have put 1000 hours on it with almost no problems.  I think a 6110m with a few hours was 50k plus.  

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Yeah for new and your hrs... I personally think you'll be disappointed.  My 2010 210Mag and 2015 Puma are niiiice to use.  But in less than a year they have seen a tech more than the mx170 in 14000 hr and 20+ years.  Little stuff.. the 210 was a tech school tractor (dont ever buy one!) So many mis-installed things, fuses missing, goofy stuff from multiple hands working on it.  The puma was low hr yard loader tractor on a dirt farm.  Kinda just didnt use it so few goofy things related to that.  The 210 had a def issue.  Tech says 2014 plus have 0 issues hes seen.  

So that being said if we need a 100hp 'yard' tractor deal I would be patient and find a MX Maxxum.  Locally deere have been not reliable either in the smaller hp.  I know....not all are junk by any means.  Just seems the 80 to 100 hp field is a bunch of glorified yard and garden.  Like BigE said..not alot of metal in them.

If your set on new.  Kubota here is king of that range and i never hear bad.  Maybe spring for a M6 since little more steel.

I frankly would not get a CIH now in that size.  So light duty and some are just poor build quality it seems.  

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5 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

I frankly would not get a CIH now in that size.  So light duty and some are just poor build quality it seems. 

Troy, that would apply to all major brands, we do a lot repair work for a local tractor jockey and see all brands.......until then I was upset with CIH's quality. Now I realize its across all the brands.

 

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10 years ago I set out to buy a new 100 HP tractor, Deere, New Holland, Massy, Kubota and case IH.

Plastic, Tin and 4cylinder engines tuning there guts out to make 100 hp is what I found 

Guy down the road got a new 85 HP Deere 3 years ago He is less than impressed. He says we are going backwards !!

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I would be interested to know what the warranty is on each and how complex it might be to delete emissions after the warranty. 

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8 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

I would be interested to know what the warranty is on each and how complex it might be to delete emissions after the warranty. 

If you mess with emissions your warranty is void, It seems that the newer equipment and trucks are having less problems with emissions 

I think they are starting to get it figured out. However 10-15 years down the road  where are you going to get parts?? 

I think a lot of the newer tractors will be sitting on the hedge row and there will still be M's  and H's running around

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I have spent the last 5 years on 5100M's and think they are garbage, I would never consider a E model. Glad we are finally Tier 4 as the Tier 3 regen was nothing but problems and insane heat.

 

Still several issues with each one I have ran all being electrical related. Run a new one now that will not shuttle shift as in will not move no matter what, when you let it warm up 20-30min. it seems to help but super frustrating. This is in Florida on 80* mornings, guessing it would not move at all in the cold...

 

It is a shame that you don't have a Massey dealer as I demod one and it was much cheaper and seemed like a ok tractor. I think they are all plastic junk now with the Kubota being very loud in the cab.

 

If I was cutting a check it would be for a used tractor, if financing you gotta do what you gotta do I guess.

 

I think the best Deere smaller tractors were the 64XX models which compare to a Maxum.

 

You will find that the 5100 has ZERO torque, it will not lug or pull at all! Simply defuels and falls on its face.

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A friend bought a Kubota, with a loader, that was a tad bigger than 100 hp

It lived in the shop almost from day one.

He had a **** of a bill against it so it would run at his retirement auction.

He took a financial bath on that tractor.

That only leaves the Deere.

With the current DEF usage, I would not buy the Deere either.

I would look for a cherry used one with no DEF.

But you do what you want?

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I'd go with Kubota out of the two, had zero issues with a smaller pre-emissions one. 

Deere E series is "Economy" versus Kubota M being the "Main" model. 

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11 hours ago, m.c.farmerboy said:

He says we are going backwards !!

The best tractors have already been built. And it's been a few plus years ago. 

Hate to give out that intel cuz I don't want the competition when I buy them. 

But, what the heck, I like you guys, there the secret is out. ?

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Bought a 4090E Deutz Fahr about 4 weeks ago, pretty impressive tractor  got syncro FNR trying to stay away from Electrics, got a 5130 starting to get a bit temperamental in electrical department

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Dad bought a 5603 new.   Its a pretty cheap tractor.  But he has used the far out of it.  Like a dozer.   Runs a 9' 3point diskbine and rou d bailer has 7000 hrs.  No joke.     Its wore out but still going lol.   

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Take the money you were going to use to buy a new tractor and go buy a 1086 and then spend all that money on it and make it like new!! you’ll have a better tractor that will last longer!!
It’s made out of iron and steel not plastic

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