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C301 IH 806


IHCfarmer
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The c221-c301 are based off the BD221, I had 5 NOS of those blocks one time. The only difference I found was no sleeves and they had a place in the block for a fuel lift pump. I had a C263 head gasket and it fit perfect.

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We did sonic test years ago and did find differences in bore thicknesses between a 263 without the sleeve and a 301.  If we could have take a 263 out to a 4" bore believe me we would have used those blocks vs the 301's.

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So what your telling me 460 is I would have to change out the block to get up to a 301. Correct? 
I take it You have taken a 301 up to a 4 inch Bore??

how much horsepower have you gotten out of it?

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2 hours ago, IHCfarmer said:

So what your telling me 460 is I would have to change out the block to get up to a 301. Correct? 
I take it You have taken a 301 up to a 4 inch Bore??

how much horsepower have you gotten out of it?

Correct.

Yes several out to 4", but note there was a IH service bulletin of concerns on taking a 301 .060 over.  I just have not seen any on the ones I took out to roughly ~.187.

HP?  Sky is the limit?  How much money do you want to spend and how long do you want it to last?

To answer your question truthfully back in the 90's with the gas ag head configuration.  4x5-1/2=414cid with open RPM which was more like about 3500rpm on the pto dyno.  We were at 200pto hp made 220 with a 2-1/8" zenith carb.

I have also done 366 chevy piston which is 3.94 bore with success.

Scott

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My point about the sky is the limit, you can sleeve and stagger the bores and go 4.125 bore, seen one through the shop that was 460 plus cid.  That was 4.125x5-3/4, was a monster for that little engine.

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There’s a guy in menomonie that may have some 806 gasser if you want me to check with him, they be westerns 

 

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from my experience driving a 221 and 301 it would be a HUGE difference when you cracked the throttle and dumped the clutch. A 221 wont lug a 301 will do a much better job - that poor 221 couldnt hold up the fuel float compared to a 301. 

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I was just wondering what kind of power you could get out of one of them old Gas engines!!

Im thinking on putting an offer in on this 806 can you get one of the smaller engine bored out to make it a 301?

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2 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

from my experience driving a 221 and 301 it would be a HUGE difference when you cracked the throttle and dumped the clutch. A 221 wont lug a 301 will do a much better job - that poor 221 couldnt hold up the fuel float compared to a 301. 

He is long passed away, but had a customer tell me about his 460 experience. When the 460/560's came out he wanted to trade in his Super M on a 560. He said his M had been hopped up a little with M & W pistons. But anyway the dealer talked him into a BIG new 460. He got it home and it wouldn't pull the plow he had used behind his SM. Mad. He went back to the dealer with the 460 and got a 560. There weren't a lot of 460's around us, but I heard they were cold blooded dogs. In fact the 460 I have that I bought a few years ago already had been changed to a C-263 sometime in its life.

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9 hours ago, IHCfarmer said:

I was just wondering what kind of power you could get out of one of them old Gas engines!!

Im thinking on putting an offer in on this 806 can you get one of the smaller engine bored out to make it a 301?

by the time you do all that to a 221 ( if you could/as derrick would say " I dont know "  ) laws of reason say you would be better off starting with a 301 even if it cost you a lil more to start with, its going to cost you as much or more to get the 221 to perform near the realm of a 301 - the 301 is what the pullers start with especially in an 806 chassis with the weight differences. 

what are you going to be using the tractor for? anything besides running the TMR Mixer? Here are some stats on the minimum req HP depending on the the type/model mixer you have. 

Before I did anything I would have the dealer put it on the dyno and prove the power. After that you know what you have to work with but a stock 221 engine is NOT going to be at 55hp which is the minimum mixer requirement here. 

according to the NE tractor tests a brand new 221 rated at 1800rpm on a 460 was just shy of 47 hp. the 221 on a 606 was rated at 2000rpm they squeeked 53 out of it. When you start turning up the RPMs on them they start producing more power. I dont know if that is the ONLY thing they do but for instance a 263 in a 560 was rated at 1800rpm @ 60hp, but in a 660 it was turning 2400 and putting out 80ish at the pto. So there is some food for thought. I bet if @Thesd5488 got ahold of one he would have it singing 3000rpm, putting out 100hp and running 35mph. 

gotta rib him a lil, he likes to run things HOT!! 

Like someone said you can do anything if you want to spend the money and how long do you want it to last ? 

There are plenty of guys I would trust here to build one to do amazing things and advise you accordingly. 

 

 

 

 

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Ok my plan for the tractor is TMR when it’s really cold out like now!!

In the summer probably use it on the small square Baler, haybine and probably hauling chopper boxes!!

may use it in the spring on the grain drills I have one of the IH tandem drill hitches!! 
 

and mainly I want it to have a 90+hp gas tractor around Just Cuz!!

maybe when I get old a bit of antique tractor pulling!!

lol 

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You should check out my 656 build thread then.

 

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On 2/15/2021 at 8:46 AM, IHCfarmer said:

Ok my plan for the tractor is TMR when it’s really cold out like now!!

In the summer probably use it on the small square Baler, haybine and probably hauling chopper boxes!!

may use it in the spring on the grain drills I have one of the IH tandem drill hitches!! 
 

and mainly I want it to have a 90+hp gas tractor around Just Cuz!!

maybe when I get old a bit of antique tractor pulling!!

lol 

you will be doing a lot of mods to get 90+ out of the 221 - all it takes is time and $$ - im lazy i find something that is already what i need i dont have the skills or tools

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  • 3 weeks later...

We have 2 of those engines here in 806s. I can check the part number. The C-301 are sleeveless engines and the C-221 engines have sleeves, so it is possible they are the same block. The C-301 engines are used in combines. I know the 403 combine uses a sleeveless C-263 engine and they are not stamped C-263 like the tractor engines are. It is possible you have a C-301 in the 806 out of a combine and it is unmarked. 

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:22 PM, IHCfarmer said:

So what your telling me 460 is I would have to change out the block to get up to a 301. Correct? 
I take it You have taken a 301 up to a 4 inch Bore??

how much horsepower have you gotten out of it?

The C-221 has sleeves and the C-301 doesn't. Also, the C-221 has a 3.6875" stroke and the C301 has a 4.39" stroke. The C-221 and C-263 share the same 3.5625" bore but the C-263 has a 4.39" stroke. The C-301 has a 3.8125" bore but shares the 4.39" stroke with the C-263. 

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On 2/14/2021 at 9:52 AM, Reichow7120 said:

Fair enough. But as a man that has a 221 gasser in a 460, IH gassers are not the warmest blooded engines on the planet.  Far from it. You definitely need to know how to choke one to make it go.

If the heat stove works correctly, they will run really well in the cold weather after a short warm up.

The weight on the inside must move freely and the bi-metalic spring in place on the outside of the manifold.

If the stove does not work, these are terribly frustrating to run.

Especially on a loader.

Cough-Sneeze-Wheeze and die.

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On 2/14/2021 at 9:52 AM, Reichow7120 said:

Fair enough. But as a man that has a 221 gasser in a 460, IH gassers are not the warmest blooded engines on the planet.  Far from it. You definitely need to know how to choke one to make it go.

NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME..HOW  WHEN AND WHERE TO SET THE CHOKE.

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