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Jacka
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Just was thinking today and my mind started to wander.

My question is what was the IH's idea behind of putting the 436 in the 986 verse the 414?More HP?Did they want to market the 436 a little more?Sales ploy?I owned and ran many 966 and 10s.Had a 1086,all had the 414.Of course the 966's weren't turbo'ed  and I always thought the 10's were so much more. Just seems to me it be natural to continue with the 414 in the 986.Did it hurt or help the sales of the 986 because of the different motor?

Thoughts?

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A friend of mine had a 986. It always felt gutless at low RPM. My 856 would walk all over it. 

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1 hour ago, Eason said:

A friend of mine had a 986. It always felt gutless at low RPM. My 856 would walk all over it. 

My uncle had a 856 custom. Traded it for a new 986 spring of '78. He always said the same thing Eason. 856 had more power. He later had regrets trading the 856 off. Wished he'd have kept it for a second big tractor.

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Not sure why IH did that. Don't think it hurt sales at all. I bought a 986 years ago, always ran 14's. The day I drove it home I went to put it in the shop and I killed it when the front wheels hit that little bump at the edge of the door. Never killed a 14 once doing that. Needless to say when it was backed out of the shop later it had a turbo on it. Then it had some response to it. Both the 966 and 986 seemed like gutless wonders to me without turbos. My 986 only stayed a couple years and was traded for a 1486.

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One theory I've heard is that IH found themselves with an excess of 436 engines lying around, so instead of scrapping them they decided to put them in the 986.

Same theory I've heard used to explain the mid-production switch from the American D312/360 to the German D310/358 in the 686 and 886.

These are just theories with no basis in any information from IH. They do make some sense because IH was in financial hot water at that point and anything they could do to save money... It's cheaper to use what you already have stacked up in warehouses than to produce new.

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17 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

One theory I've heard is that IH found themselves with an excess of 436 engines lying around, so instead of scrapping them they decided to put them in the 986.

Same theory I've heard used to explain the mid-production switch from the American D312/360 to the German D310/358 in the 686 and 886.

These are just theories with no basis in any information from IH. They do make some sense because IH was in financial hot water at that point and anything they could do to save money... It's cheaper to use what you already have stacked up in warehouses than to produce new.

Somebody at IH must've thought the D436 was the engine of choice, with putting them in 1440s too during the same timeframe. Lol! 

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Here’s my two cents…

all the 400 series engines use the same block, the only difference is the stroke which means a different crank.

in the 66 series the only tractors that use the 414 what is the 966 and 1066. for some reason the Hydro 100 had a 436 in it but it was the same PTO horsepower as a 966 roughly.

The 86 series the only tractor that use the 414 was the 1086, if you look at the number of 1086s built you will see that if you put all of the other 986s, Hydro 186s, 1486s and 1586s together it will be somewhere around the same number of 436s built as there was 414s! Maybe they couldn’t build the 414 cranks fast enough to supply any more than the 1086. 
 

if you look at the 30 series tractors you will see the 3688 had a 436 and a Hydro 3488 had a 466, in the 50 series the 5088 had a 436, the 5288 and 5488‘s had 466s in them. 

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12 minutes ago, Qc.Can.IH man said:

Here’s my two cents…

all the 400 series engines use the same block, the only difference is the stroke which means a different crank.

in the 66 series the only tractors that use the 414 what is the 966 and 1066. for some reason the Hydro 100 had a 436 in it but it was the same PTO horsepower as a 966 roughly.

The 86 series the only tractor that use the 414 was the 1086, if you look at the number of 1086s built you will see that if you put all of the other 986s, Hydro 186s, 1486s and 1586s together it will be somewhere around the same number of 436s built as there was 414s! Maybe they couldn’t build the 414 cranks fast enough to supply any more than the 1086. 
 

if you look at the 30 series tractors you will see the 3688 had a 436 and a Hydro 3488 had a 466, in the 50 series the 5088 had a 436, the 5288 and 5488‘s had 466s in them. 

I think the pistons had different pin settings as well as crank differences. 

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On 2/11/2021 at 8:05 PM, Jacka said:

Just was thinking today and my mind started to wander.

My question is what was the IH's idea behind of putting the 436 in the 986 verse the 414?More HP?Did they want to market the 436 a little more?Sales ploy?I owned and ran many 966 and 10s.Had a 1086,all had the 414.Of course the 966's weren't turbo'ed  and I always thought the 10's were so much more. Just seems to me it be natural to continue with the 414 in the 986.Did it hurt or help the sales of the 986 because of the different motor?

Thoughts?

Obvious answer is to boost horsepower without throwing fuel economy and emissions out the window. By the time the 3688 came along they were within 2 horsepower of what the original 1066 was rated at.

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1 hour ago, jass1660 said:

I think the pistons had different pin settings as well as crank differences. 

Yep you are correct ....... I found that out the hard way once doing an overhaul . In a hurry and not paying attention to detail during assembly . They dont start worth a S**T if the pistons dont come to the top . Right overhaul kit per part # but wrong pistons in the kit . Got rhe honors of tearing it down again and installing correct pistons . Lesson learned !!

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I just always assumed it was to save the cost of the turbo.   The D436 & D414 had to be within a couple dollars of each other for the basic motor.   So you take two motors, one with a expensive turbo on it, and one without, both meet the requested HP ratings, which one are you going to pick (as the bean counter in charge of production)???

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4 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

I just always assumed it was to save the cost of the turbo.   The D436 & D414 had to be within a couple dollars of each other for the basic motor.   So you take two motors, one with a expensive turbo on it, and one without, both meet the requested HP ratings, which one are you going to pick (as the bean counter in charge of production)???

Well both the 9's were non turbo naturally aspirated tractors from the  factory.

It to me made the 986 sorta oddball tractor to me,I mean no offence to anyone.I think the one reason stated back about the 1086 success,they wanted to save all the cranks, components for it they could gives the best excuse. But they would have had to make that decision long before production. The 414 in the 966's were a success, I owned several,just underpowered when you jumped off a 10 on to it.Just dosen't seem to make much sense to me other then they thought the 986 would preform better then it did with the 436.

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The 986 was the 966 replacement- so that is the comparison, not a 9 to a 10.  A bigger engine will produce more torque, all else being the same.

Through the years you can kind of see a bump in displacement by hp class- 1206 361; 1256 407; 1066-86 414 (small CID jump but new engine design); 5088 436; 7110 505- Unless you feel the 3688 @ 116 or whatever it was, was the direct decendant(sp?) of the 1206, but it was a 436 too.  Thinking more on that though, I'd probably go 806-856-966-986-3688.

I remember reading an article when the 7110s came out, comparing the fuel efficiency to the 1086.  Evidently the 10 did pretty well at the time, and I don't recall how the 7110 compared with it anymore.

 

Edit:  Interesting topic.  I always wondered why.  Maybe some of the guys at the dealerships at the time know why.

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Just was thinking today and my mind started to wander.

My question is what was the IH's idea behind of putting the 436 in the 986 verse the 414?More HP?Did they want to market the 436 a little more?Sales ploy?I owned and ran many 966 and 10s.Had a 1086,all had the 414.Of course the 966's weren't turbo'ed  and I always thought the 10's were so much more. Just seems to me it be natural to continue with the 414 in the 986.Did it hurt or help the sales of the 986 because of the different motor?

Thoughts?

 I'm thinking that the bottom line is generally profit drive, or customer driven. Don't think any one has ever figured out what corporation do what they do, they seem to follow in politician footsteps, no reason, it just is.

And I gotta say, you be a lucky one. At least you got a mind to wander. Every time mine goes to the wander mode it goes out looking for itself. 99 times out of 10 it comes back empty headed, er, I mean handed. whaddevah!

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On 2/11/2021 at 8:05 PM, Jacka said:

Just was thinking today and my mind started to wander.

My question is what was the IH's idea behind of putting the 436 in the 986 verse the 414?More HP?Did they want to market the 436 a little more?Sales ploy?I owned and ran many 966 and 10s.Had a 1086,all had the 414.Of course the 966's weren't turbo'ed  and I always thought the 10's were so much more. Just seems to me it be natural to continue with the 414 in the 986.Did it hurt or help the sales of the 986 because of the different motor?

Thoughts?

It's because the 986 was going to be so awesome they had to put the 436 in it! :)

986 may or may not be my favorite IH tractor... :)

 

 

 

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