Jump to content

1953 Super C keeps burning out 12 volt starter solenoids


Recommended Posts

I Have been needing to replace starter solenoids about every 4 months or so. At first they start breaking down by not sending power to the starter momentary switch (not stock) which is a push button type switch, then when that stops working , i can take a jumper wire to cross the two main terminals on the solenoid when the power is turned on and that works for a while then over time nothing will work.  Could the Alternator be putting out too much power burning these  things out? I'm not good with electrical. This tractor has been converted to 12 volt.

96103480_1524141074414707_7309176117426913280_n.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Take an electrical meter put it on DC volts and check your battery voltage holding your probes to each battery post while it’s running, not sure if your neg or pos ground, hold the black probe to whichever post runs to ground, you should read between 13.8-14.6 volts, that will tell you if your alternator is charging properly, how many wire alternator do you have 3 or 1?

Can you take a picture of the solenoid that keeps failing, you say not stock? How much cranking does it take to start? Are you cables and connections good?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Alternator is a new single wire type that is putting out 14.1 at idle. The ground from the battery and starter switch and solenoid go to the center post that the steering controls are mounted on at the lower pedestal. When it cranks it starts right up in summer and a little longer after a few choice words and threats followed by a squirt of ether in the Winter. I Don't have the pull rod starter setup that's stock but a master power shut off and a momentary switch that works when it wants too. The only thing i can think of is the alternator might be "spiking" high amp shots or the solenoid switches are just cheap Chinese junk. I Did buy a high dollar stainless steel marine type thinking it could last longer but it stopped switching over inside about the same amount of time of 2 months like the others.  I'm located in a really remote area of Maine and there are no tractor repair places or 12 volt electrical geeks within 4 hours drive. A car repair places won't touch a tractor.

20210112_084937.jpg

20210112_084933.jpg

20210112_085009.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Alternator isn't the problem.  It doesn't work that way, and I'm not going to take the time to explain why not.  

Your wiring is a mess and a joke, but I guess it probably works.  

You have two problems i see for sure.

1.) The solenoid is a light duty Ford style fender mount solenoid.  It's not really heavy enough for what you are using it for.  It's more of a big relay. 

2.) Those solenoids are grounded through the base, and you have it mounted to plexiglass.  You are burning it up.  

Just put the pull rod starter button back on.  It's harder to goof up if you aren't good at electrical. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a good post to explain and clean up the wiring

I agree with J Mech on the grounded mounting

Nice cab on your tractor, kind of resembles the old Macdonalds?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks to me like he is grounding the solenoid through the pink wire to the base. I would call that wiring creative probably not to effective.  he doesn't look to be using a resistor bypass wire why would you need ether to start a c on 12v something is totally wrong. 10-15 second cranking should have it running for sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you running a 6v coil with an external resistor or a 12 v coil with an internal resistor the wiring is different  does your starter have a center bearing in it and 4 poles or two ? The only thing that really burns out solenoids is heat from either excessive cranking or excessive draw. As far as the alternator goes Its doing nothing when your cranking over the tractor so that can't affect it as the solenoid is doing nothing when the engine is running.. What type of solenoid is it? you look to have an unused terminal is that terminal marked with an I? I have worked on a good many Cs in the last fifty years and I never have see on in Minnesota that needed ether to get it started. If you can eliminate the solenoid by crossing the two big terminals and it still doesn't turn over why would you suspect the solenoid? I suspect its something upstream or more likely downstream (starter ) Is your problem. Also the solenoid doesn't send power to the momentary contact switch it receives power from the momentary contact switch to activate it

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, madscotsman59 said:

I Guess i should have made it clear that i am asking for help instead of smart ass comments from keyboard tractor experts. If you don't have anything constructive to add try some STFU.  

Sorry you feel that way. As I read the comments I thought everyone was trying to help. I didn't see anything misleading.

With the imformation we have it is impossible to point to anything and say that is your problem. We have to make assumptions to even hazard a guess. Which is what I have done. I will try to explain as I go along.

First forget the alternator. Others have already covered that.

Next is my first assumption. I assume the pink wire that disappears behind the solenoid is connected to the same bolt that mounts solenoid to plastic. That I think is your biggest problem. If you tighten that bolt to tight. You crack the plastic. If not tight enough connection degrades. When it gets bad enough. Button stops working. To aggravate this problem. A partial connection generates heat which with the plastic further loosens the connection.

When you jump the two big terminals on the solenoid. You take all wires except the cables out of circuit. Since. Replaceing solenoid seems to repair all functions. Here is what I think is going on. I assume you disconnect battery cables when changeing solenoid. In the act changeing solenoid. The ground bolt is retightened establishing that connection again. After the change the cables are installed and tightened establishing the connection that was lost when jumping didn't work any more. If I am correct nothing is wrong with the solenoids you replaced.

On the cold start problem. R190 is chasing one possibility. Answering his questions will answer that. I see it as more likely a choke problem or gas too old.

I hope this helps. Could be all wrong but is something to check.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Must be where the mad part comes in😆at least his handle warned us

On the coil, may be difficult to determine but sometimes they are marked if they are internally resisted and if not then whether you need to add an external resistor to that circuit, if electrical isn’t your forte this maybe Greek, but you could try take the primary resistance reading off the coil, what you are trying to achieve is the proper current that will be flowing through your points that your spark is nice and crisp but not so much that it starts burning up your contacts, switching the original system from 6V generator to 12V alternator has changed this original setup and if the guy who did this took it into consideration? I still believe your solenoid grounding is the culprit for your starting woes, cleaning up the wiring is desirable and the coil problems will develop after extended operation if things aren’t in the ballpark 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, madscotsman59 said:

I Guess i should have made it clear that i am asking for help instead of smart ass comments from keyboard tractor experts. If you don't have anything constructive to add try some STFU.  

Wow.  Guess you don't want help?  Nobody here was being a smart ass.  And for the record, none of the comments here are "keyboard tractor experts".  At least 3 of us were or are mechanics, and at least 2, maybe 3 of which work/ed for IH.  Just so we're "clear" on everything. 

I think between all the posts you got enough info to keep you busy for a while. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...