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Hand Cranking, Farmall C , Injury results


560Dennis

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I’ve been injured before cranking Farmall C s, remember that and I do utmost best to keep the Farmalls starting operational . I try to keep battery ,cables and starters in this best  possible condition. But ! I got a painful reminder in the right forearm , Monday. Now I have another close call , to not get frustrated and cut corners get in hurried to get the tractor started. Especially a visit to the ER ,these days. Not worth the reward. 
So I post this for your edification and amusement, 
 

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No amusement

I remember our hayfield sweeps on reversed H's had no electric start. Hand crank only. If we we're lucky and there was a hill nearby we always parked so we could roll start the next morning.

Although I never had one catch me, the old boys I worked with put the fear of God in me with stories of broken arms so that I never took them lightly.

Wish you a speedy heal up, looks like it's going to be sore for a bit.

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I got a bad bruise and later a lump on my arm many years ago trying to hand crank an old Alexama Chomplers er I mean Allison Chambers er I mean Allisama Chamers  er I mean Alley Cat er I mean Allis Chalmers WD45 I think it was. Did WD45’s have hand crank start? I don’t remember for sure what model it was. It was some old model AC. At first I thought I got my arm broken. I guess I was inexperienced in the procedure. Never-the-less, at the time,  I said to myself  F_ _ K this. I went and got a friend and as I remember we were successful in pull starting it. That was the one and only time I ever tried or ever will try to hand crank a tractor. Screw that. 

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Always pays to be careful.  I have cranked many a tractor and never got bit. My Dad used to harp on me about never messing with split rings.  I always thought it was just Dad being Dad until I was working with a guy at a metal shop one day and the guy had a split ring wheel laying down and he was airing it up while perched on the edge.  No cage or chain.  I went to yell, Hey, get off that.....out of habit from Dad....when the ring came loose and drove the guy over the front of the truck. When we rolled him over, he wasn't breathing,  just twitching and we really couldn't find his mouth as he was really rearranged.  The ambulance came in minutes and they managed to bring him back but he was never right since then. Everyone be careful!

I hope you feel better. 

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Some times up here in the Keweenaw with the cold winter temps I have to back the timming off so the 185 will start.

it rolls over slowly and kicks back.

Once it gets going I set it back in place and snug the bolt down.

this might help with the hand start.

Mike

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Every time I air up the 22.5 tires to 110 PSI on our bus/RV I always think about the aluminum wheels that are not all  that strong to begin  with, but they are  one piece wheels.  Sort of like driving around a blind curve on the freeway at 75 MPH, should make a thinking person T-H-I-N-K!

 

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I have felt your pain, not from a C but from a New Holland 77 baler with the Wisconsin v4 , short crank handle would get you on the wrist, remember dad telling us what don’t kill you will make you stronger?

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57 minutes ago, mikem said:

The TD-14 has a crank hole in the grill

As did the TD18's !!!!

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We had an AC WD45 set up with hand crank dad pitched the crank I guess so us boys wouldn't be tempted or maybe his arm looked that too many times. Never saw him use it but he routinely flywheel started one of the JD B'S we had

 

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that is from advanced timing. did you kick it back? i have no other way to start my WD40. pretty well the same engine as the td14. lucky it starts on the third pull. otherwise i would be out of gas.

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Ouch!   Best wishes for a speedy recovery.  I got a chipped tooth and a sore jaw from grandpa’s F 14 at age 9 or 10 once.  I was lucky and learned a valuable life lesson.

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oh my dennis, so glad you are ok, no one wants to get laid up from an accident - do you have a place to back it up on a slope to roll start it or back it up some ramps ? my FIL in SD had a spot he did that and its WAY FLAT there. 

 

 

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Hope you recover fast!  When the generator died, I used to hand crank my 48 H, it started so easily. Finally decided that it was best to put an alternator and 12V battery on. Crank handle is hanging up in the shed, figured that some day my luck would run out.....?

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Hand cranked the Super H many a morning when feeding cattle. Probably started as soon as I had the ummph to lift the crank. First thing dad taught me was always stay off to the side facing the grill and always hold the crank loose in your hand. Never had a problem or even a close call, but knew some who weren't at luck.

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Dennis I hope you have a speedy recovery. I know exactly how that feels.

All our old IH tractors are hand crank only (only Dad's Case DEX has any electrics but we still hand crank it if the batteries flat) and my Farmall A is the only one I have ever been worried about starting. It has always been a bit prone to kicking back . I have finally re timed it ,and retarded the timing a bit. Must be a bit of a slow learner ,as it has taken me a long time to get around to doing it. Last time it kicked back, a friend tried to wind the engine up at a show , I stopped him and showed them how it should be done, using only upstrokes when it kicked back .The crank handle ripped out of my hand and spun around it hitting me in the arm. It is amazing how fast the crank handle spins backwards (rarely get enough time to get your arm out of the way). Luckily no real harm was done but my arm was sore for a few days with a good lump and did bruise well.  Strangely my friends weren't so keen to start our tractors after seeing that. Only time my W4 has kicked back ,was moisture in the magneto after it was left outside one night and it rained. We now cover the magnetos if the tractors are left outside.

It always scares me when I see someone starting a tractor pushing down on the crank handle or even winding up the engine. I often get told the timing is retarded so it will not kick back ,it can't hurt me but even using the correct cranking method it can still go wrong sometimes. 

Marty,NZ

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18 minutes ago, JaredT said:

I haven't crank started a tractor in years, dead batteries get jumped as almost all of ours are 12v now. Forgive my ignorance, bit what is winding up an engine? I am assuming cranking backwards a little before going forward?

Not really if I follow the cranks rotates engine one direction only by design  ,problem arise if timing of combustion make it easy for the engine to rotate backwards after ignition . When this happens the hand crank remains engaged as if rotating ,holding it in the driving driven direction,  the hand crank is held there with tremendous force in reverse of design ?‍♂️?ouch 

 

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Arm itching today 

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49 minutes ago, JaredT said:

Forgive my ignorance, bit what is winding up an engine? 

Winding an engine, trying to turn the crank in a complete circle.  If It kicks back on the down stroke your more likely to get hurt bad.

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Winding up would be  spinning the engine complete revolutions rather than cranking only on a upwards pull. This messes up the impulse in a Magneto and it may very well fire way ahead of top dead center.    And like others have said, never wrap thumb or even fingers  around crank handle, keep it in palm of hand so crank will just pull out of your hand if it kicks.  Still can come around and wack you though depending on your reaction time.

This kind of goes back to my saying all along that the second mark on H or M Farmall is the correct point to time a magneto to . People will argue this but your magneto still has the proper advance when running done this way.  Those impulse weights and pins get worn and may just let go a little earlier than top dead center if you time it to top dead center.  

On battery ignition, you want to make sure static timing is not one bit before tdc  and that the automatic advance is free to readily return to full retard if you intend to hand crank and engine. 

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43 minutes ago, pete23 said:

 

.  Those impulse weights and pins get worn and may just let go a little earlier than top dead center if you time it to top dead center.  

 

Ive never look at the magneto impluser before , thanks for bringing that up about the wear , 

This magneto (tractor ) got used a lot . Do you replace (fatigue) springs to minimize the early release you mention. I ask ,I’ve not read the blue ribbon book on magneto in several years , just trying get some insight 

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Unfortunately in a impulse, the weights wear badly on the pins often.  If that is true, it would require replacement or major improvised repair. Springs don't amount to much and some don't even have any.  The ends of the weights and the pin they strike against wear and weights can be squared up and pin removed and reversed for new side. 

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