Jump to content

4 cylinder Cummins into an IH tractor?


Recommended Posts

Actually a 6V53 with N45 injectors was usually 220hp. I have the tag. And that's 220 hp that can be used all day long. Not like the hot rodded diesel pickups that claim big numbers that can only be used a few times for a quarter mile. If the 318 cubic inch 6V could motivate a L-8000 dumptruck, I think it will do just fine in a ton-and-a-half or whatever a heavy spec 1990 F-450 is rated for. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 206
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Love it. I'm not even involved. ?   I'd do a Cummins swap.  Think I can shoe horn a 4B into my 284?  If I thought I could and it wasn't overkill I would! Seriously looking at Kubota engines

But why?? The IH engines are much better than those sleeveless rattle trap cummins engines. 

I’m gonna start by saying I’ve never had the pleasure of owning a ih diesel we had 706 gas when I was a kid and I preferred it to other tractor s we had then because of how it drove straight on the ro

Posted Images

9 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Actually a 6V53 with N45 injectors was usually 220hp. I have the tag. And that's 220 hp that can be used all day long. Not like the hot rodded diesel pickups that claim big numbers that can only be used a few times for a quarter mile. If the 318 cubic inch 6V could motivate a L-8000 dumptruck, I think it will do just fine in a ton-and-a-half or whatever a heavy spec 1990 F-450 is rated for. 

You will be fine another guy here had a 72 one ton Chevy with a 3208. He made the front fenders solid with a flip open hood. He hauled a lot with it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Deere was trying to get their fingers into Detroit at one time, and if I remember the story right, since they couldn't make that deal work, the green guys that really wanted to be in the truck market started marketing some engines for over the road trucks. Allis had a big truck engine for a very short time as well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Actually a 6V53 with N45 injectors was usually 220hp. I have the tag. And that's 220 hp that can be used all day long. Not like the hot rodded diesel pickups that claim big numbers that can only be used a few times for a quarter mile. If the 318 cubic inch 6V could motivate a L-8000 dumptruck, I think it will do just fine in a ton-and-a-half or whatever a heavy spec 1990 F-450 is rated for. 

Yeah, that’s a fair point with 220hp.  But the weight is still a killer.  What makes the 5.9 Cummins okay in smaller trucks is its “relatively” low weight.  I think it’s 1100ish lbs.  

Don’t get me wrong, I am not a 6bt fanboy.  I find the legend it has become a bit annoying to me for some reason.  That motor wasn’t great in medium duty trucks.  It certainly didn’t get its 500,000 mile longevity in medium duty trucks.  I think 200k was expectable when they were worked hard.  It’s a 150hp motor at best, if it’s going to spend its life pulling it’s guts out.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting that the famed engine was designed by a ex Perkins English Canadian fellow. You can see were some of the design came from in the Perkins lineup. They say some of the little 4 cyl case engine was a base design also. 

7A6CB25C-B7A7-4071-82F7-0C30A4492BFC.png

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize to the original poster for my part in taking this thread down unrelated paths, I hope nobody gets too annoyed.   
On the topic of swaps, the mention of 3208’s came up earlier.  I have the whopper of all 3208 swaps, see picture below.  This car still exists in Regina, SK at least as of last year. 

9EFB9295-40D6-4657-A359-E42C94FAF5D2.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Deere was trying to get their fingers into Detroit at one time, and if I remember the story right, since they couldn't make that deal work, the green guys that really wanted to be in the truck market started marketing some engines for over the road trucks. Allis had a big truck engine for a very short time as well. 

It was only for the smaller trucks, I seen advertising..........Never seen any for OTR trucks?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2020 at 7:47 PM, Killer Red Mater said:

Amazing to me how closed minded some are .   However a buddy of mine put a 6BT in a 706 and now its an AWESOME tractor.  Sips fuel , runs smooth and way plenty of power .   Best thing that ever happened to that tractor.  Took out the crappy glowplug JUNK that didnt like to start even in the heat of summer to something that starts in the cold unplugged   Thats a win win especially if its a chore tractor you need daily to feed no matter what.   Your tractor so build what suits you and your need sir.

Well Put!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/21/2020 at 7:25 PM, Farmall Doctor said:

You mean like MY opinion that it's disgusting to repower an IH tractor?  You are the one acting offended here, bud. It's not your 706's fault that you couldn't fix the glow plugs. 

He's got a point 

 

 

Gearclash, fwiw..nothing.  sounds like a decent deal for your application like Ed L says.  But....maybe be simpler for over the counter stuff to get a MX with a 5.9. Locally there are some near 30k hrs on mixers.  Good motors. ..like 400 series.   An let's be frank.....a mx is alot nicer to operate on a daily basis.  

 

I'll go back to my popcorn 

 

?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2020 at 1:39 PM, Cdfarabaugh said:

Rather pull a head and drop an oil pan for a cavitated sleeve that pull a whole freaking engine and strip it for a boring and sleeving job the day it wipes a cylinder out......

Never, ever EVER will you see me own a piece of heavy equipment with a parent bore engine.  

 

Huh?  They get along just fine.  See 30k+hr parent bore engines all the time.  In 50 years our farm has never lost a cylinder on anything.  But...had orings go bad.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

Huh?  They get along just fine.  See 30k+hr parent bore engines all the time.  In 50 years our farm has never lost a cylinder on anything.  But...had orings go bad.....

Might just be that I have a more bitter outlook from working on them and seeing more failures. Neighbor had a 5.9 drop a valve in his CIH 8880 discbine a few years ago.  Called me and I pretty much said buy an engine, it's done for.  

Sleeved engine could have been fixed in chassis with one piston/liner/rod, reman head, new injector a new turbo and out the door.  

O rings are an issue, but modern ELC coolants really take a lot of the maintenance headaches away.  I always ask people if they check their conventional coolant and get a puzzled look.....and already know the answer lol

Guess it's like anything, you cant get people to agree on politics, you sure cant get them to agree on engines ?

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

Might just be that I have a more bitter outlook from working on them and seeing more failures. Neighbor had a 5.9 drop a valve in his CIH 8880 discbine a few years ago.  Called me and I pretty much said buy an engine, it's done for.  

Sleeved engine could have been fixed in chassis with one piston/liner/rod, reman head, new injector a new turbo and out the door.  

O rings are an issue, but modern ELC coolants really take a lot of the maintenance headaches away.  I always ask people if they check their conventional coolant and get a puzzled look.....and already know the answer lol

Guess it's like anything, you cant get people to agree on politics, you sure cant get them to agree on engines ?

+1............Dairy farmers were known for that here, dump the coolant out, when repairs were done, dump it back in.........Years and years of this.  Then it was the end of the world when a sleeve was ate through...............I was at the neighbors once years ago, they were putting a new radiator in.  Asked them what coolant they were putting in it, they looked at me and pointed to the pan of dirty coolant underneith the dirty tractor.  I guess that is how you get to be a millionair acouple times over????  Give me sleeves any day.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/25/2020 at 11:21 AM, dale560 said:

My truck buddy had a new 4/53 put in his 75 or 76 new one ton four wheel drive k35 . His had a 350 4 speed after he blew up Detroit from over speeding it after a few years he put a 454 into it. The Detroit swap could be done with factory parts from GM. Those engines were in c50 60 chevys with the same type bell housing.

In about 1979 I bought a 1967 Chevy step van that came with a 3-53 Detroit Diesel and 4 speed pickup type transmission from the factory.  The transmission was mounted to the engine with a “hogs head” clutch housing, not a round SAE type.  I installed it into a ‘68 Ford F250.  With a 3:54 rear axle it was good for 65 mph down a steep hill and averaged around 20 mpg.  Not enough power to tow anything, tho. Learned a lot during the installation.   Drove it to work for about 7 years, but there was always something that needed attention.  And did I say it was noisy?     Brian

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, since this thread has already taken on a parallel tangent, I may as well say that I have all of the components; '90 Ford Super Duty (ex tow truck.. Solid front axle). '95 F-150 cab and front clip, 6V53 engine in the stock configuration, Eaton FS7206A 6 speed direct main trans, Dana 6041 4 speed auxiliary trans with .87% overdrive, Dana rear end out of an IH 4500 low profile truck. 3.07 gears, 19.5" wheels, limited slip, and hydraulic disc brakes. Top speed calculates to 100mph, so I should get some decent fuel mileage. It will be a fun project if I ever get to finish it! It's hard to find time to take up half the shop when the yard is full of paying jobs! 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Well, since this thread has already taken on a parallel tangent, I may as well say that I have all of the components; '90 Ford Super Duty (ex tow truck.. Solid front axle). '95 F-150 cab and front clip, 6V53 engine in the stock configuration, Eaton FS7206A 6 speed direct main trans, Dana 6041 4 speed auxiliary trans with .87% overdrive, Dana rear end out of an IH 4500 low profile truck. 3.07 gears, 19.5" wheels, limited slip, and hydraulic disc brakes. Top speed calculates to 100mph, so I should get some decent fuel mileage. It will be a fun project if I ever get to finish it! It's hard to find time to take up half the shop when the yard is full of paying jobs! 

Sounds like fun go for it. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Well, since this thread has already taken on a parallel tangent, I may as well say that I have all of the components; '90 Ford Super Duty (ex tow truck.. Solid front axle). '95 F-150 cab and front clip, 6V53 engine in the stock configuration, Eaton FS7206A 6 speed direct main trans, Dana 6041 4 speed auxiliary trans with .87% overdrive, Dana rear end out of an IH 4500 low profile truck. 3.07 gears, 19.5" wheels, limited slip, and hydraulic disc brakes. Top speed calculates to 100mph, so I should get some decent fuel mileage. It will be a fun project if I ever get to finish it! It's hard to find time to take up half the shop when the yard is full of paying jobs! 

sounds cool at least you are starting out with a heavy enough truck......... stick a medium duty Pete cab and hood ( 330 or similar ) on it and you got a sweet truck

 anyone have weights for a IH 400 series and the 5.9 engines

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

Might just be that I have a more bitter outlook from working on them and seeing more failures. Neighbor had a 5.9 drop a valve in his CIH 8880 discbine a few years ago.  Called me and I pretty much said buy an engine, it's done for.  

Sleeved engine could have been fixed in chassis with one piston/liner/rod, reman head, new injector a new turbo and out the door.  

O rings are an issue, but modern ELC coolants really take a lot of the maintenance headaches away.  I always ask people if they check their conventional coolant and get a puzzled look.....and already know the answer lol

Guess it's like anything, you cant get people to agree on politics, you sure cant get them to agree on engines ?

Or oil....??

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, hillman said:

sounds cool at least you are starting out with a heavy enough truck......... stick a medium duty Pete cab and hood ( 330 or similar ) on it and you got a sweet truck

 anyone have weights for a IH 400 series and the 5.9 engines

 

 

A 1991 spec sheet shows the DT466 truck engine with flywheel, but no starter or alternator at 1400 lb.  

Cumminshub shows the 5.9 at 1150 lb, but does not say if this includes flywheel, starter, alternator, etc.

For comparison, the DT360 is listed at 1200 lb. with flywheel.

Brian

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The physical size of a 466 is much larger than a 5.9, if swaps are being considered.   When you look at two, it’s obvious they are fighting in different weight classes.  (Even though the 6bt crowd thinks they have the same engine as a Kenworth). Haha!

The 5.9 makes way better use of space than a 466, the designers must have had in mind.  The front drive/accessories area is nice and compact with its serpentine belt setup.  I fit a 466 under a 1965 F-700, and it required lots of cutting; the back of the head is where the cup-holder should be.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/25/2020 at 8:40 AM, Super A_sepa said:

IMG_20201222_132538533_HDR.jpg

IMG_20201222_132528710.jpg

IMG_20201222_132524555_HDR.jpg

Bitty posted these pictures in his 766 thread in the Coffee Shop. This was one that I helped with. It needs the AC compressor yet to be finished. And maybe red or black paint on the motor. I don't know how much cleaner of an install there could be. Exhaust comes out the factory hole, running all the factory gauges. It does cost a little more to do it this way but I certainly think its worth it.     We have one out that is running the intercooler in a 1086 too.  I forget where this one is set horsepower wise.    Had put one in out of a pickup that the guy who sold it had done some work to it before deciding to replace it with a 24 valve. With the new clutch put in at the same time it had enough power to slip it before we turned it back! They won't live at 200 like a 414 or 436 in a tractor but that wasn't what Gearclash is after. 

 

On 12/25/2020 at 8:55 AM, hillman said:

thats a quality install  but I noticed it in bitty's thread in a line up at a dealer, seems funny to put all that time and money into a tractor and sell it⁉️ whats up with that

They use less fuel than the IH engine did. This is the bigger attraction to them

Link to post
Share on other sites

All these questions,debate etc are good,fun.

But the one I have since running and owning many 414dts in 1066s,and all the other 400 series in trucks,tractors. Would that 5.9 give me the same soft purr while idling,the same torque rise when under load, the need not to run it wide open 100% of the time just to get the job done and the same REAL horse power to use in the field.I never ran a Dog with one in ,I am a Ford guy. I never ran a tractor with one in.

The only thing I have to compare is the Case/IH 2096 I believe.I never ran one but from what I read and talked to others when I was buying more tractors that it has a 5.9 in it and was underpowered for the weight of the tractor. I could be wrong because it's been years since I talked to the owner so don't hang me.

Just wondering what real life would be with 1066dt in the field with stock or rated factory HP alongside a 5.9 with the engine set to its SAME FACTORY HP.

P.S.

I wouldn't take a 414dt out of 1066 for NOTHING. So I  guess I am biased. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...