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1086 Hydraulic/Transmission Issues


RedNwhite
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I was finishing up the last bit of discing for the year the other day with the 1086 when my power steering and clutch would both get stiff on and off. I kept discing and a while later the steering stiffened up again and the tractor stopped moving, almost like I had shoved the clutch. I switched gears and finished discing. When I pulled out of the field I checked the fluid level and it was full. So I pulled onto the road in 2nd, shifted the torque ahead to direct drive and then shifted into 3rd gear, everything was working normally but then when I started down a slight hill I could feel the load come off the engine like it had disengaged, so I revved the throttle and sure enough it acted like I wasn't in gear again so I shoved the clutch (it was stiff) and stopped, shifted out of 3rd and right back into 3rd, let out the clutch and I started moving again, I felt a bit of a jump like I had shifted the T/A (which I hadn't moved) and away I went again only to have it disengage on the next downhill grade. This time I could not get moving again no matter what gear I was in or whether I had the T/A in direct or amplified, and the power steering and clutch were both stiff again. So I shut the tractor off to let it cool down and started it up 5 minutes later and everything worked perfect, power steering and clutch both felt normal, I could run in any gear and the T/A shifted beautifully in both directions. I got to the yard and unhooked the disc, drove up to the other shed and around the yard and then it started acting up again. 

Now I had around 300 hours on since we had changed the hydraulic filter so I knew the filter was overdue and thought maybe it was clogged. When I pulled the filter out I found what appeared to be part of a gasket lodged between the filter and the housing so I thought to myself, there's my problem. (It turns out it was actually half of a metal shim that goes on the wet brakes, no idea how it would have made its way to the filter, and I assume the other half of the shim is still inside the case somewhere) So I put a new hydraulic filter in, drained the hydraulic fluid to see what it looked like and refilled since it was clean. I started the tractor and pulled out of the shop and everything seemed to be working fine but the power steering and clutch were still a little stiff (not as bad as before but stiffer than normal) as soon as I was out the door the tractor stopped moving, I shoved the clutch and switched gears and still wouldn't move, so I pulled the T/A and then I was able to move, did a lap around the barn and then it stopped again, didn't matter what gear or what position of the torque, I could not get the tractor to move again, so I shut it off. While I was sitting there pondering the issue, I heard a clink or a clunk underneath me, and thought maybe something had gone into place so I started the tractor and sure enough everything worked fine again, so I pulled back into the shop and that's where she sits now. 

Does anyone have any ideas where I should go from here? The tractor had a stripped reverse gear when I bought it, so the first thing we did was split it and replaced the reverse gear and the idler, also put in a brand new clutch. Torque always worked great, and even now I can stall the engine by pressing the brakes in both direct drive and torque amplified, so it doesn't appear to be a torque issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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On 11/30/2020 at 4:29 PM, RedNwhite said:

I was finishing up the last bit of discing for the year the other day with the 1086 when my power steering and clutch would both get stiff on and off. I kept discing and a while later the steering stiffened up again and the tractor stopped moving, almost like I had shoved the clutch. I switched gears and finished discing. When I pulled out of the field I checked the fluid level and it was full. So I pulled onto the road in 2nd, shifted the torque ahead to direct drive and then shifted into 3rd gear, everything was working normally but then when I started down a slight hill I could feel the load come off the engine like it had disengaged, so I revved the throttle and sure enough it acted like I wasn't in gear again so I shoved the clutch (it was stiff) and stopped, shifted out of 3rd and right back into 3rd, let out the clutch and I started moving again, I felt a bit of a jump like I had shifted the T/A (which I hadn't moved) and away I went again only to have it disengage on the next downhill grade. This time I could not get moving again no matter what gear I was in or whether I had the T/A in direct or amplified, and the power steering and clutch were both stiff again. So I shut the tractor off to let it cool down and started it up 5 minutes later and everything worked perfect, power steering and clutch both felt normal, I could run in any gear and the T/A shifted beautifully in both directions. I got to the yard and unhooked the disc, drove up to the other shed and around the yard and then it started acting up again. 

Now I had around 300 hours on since we had changed the hydraulic filter so I knew the filter was overdue and thought maybe it was clogged. When I pulled the filter out I found what appeared to be part of a gasket lodged between the filter and the housing so I thought to myself, there's my problem. (It turns out it was actually half of a metal shim that goes on the wet brakes, no idea how it would have made its way to the filter, and I assume the other half of the shim is still inside the case somewhere) So I put a new hydraulic filter in, drained the hydraulic fluid to see what it looked like and refilled since it was clean. I started the tractor and pulled out of the shop and everything seemed to be working fine but the power steering and clutch were still a little stiff (not as bad as before but stiffer than normal) as soon as I was out the door the tractor stopped moving, I shoved the clutch and switched gears and still wouldn't move, so I pulled the T/A and then I was able to move, did a lap around the barn and then it stopped again, didn't matter what gear or what position of the torque, I could not get the tractor to move again, so I shut it off. While I was sitting there pondering the issue, I heard a clink or a clunk underneath me, and thought maybe something had gone into place so I started the tractor and sure enough everything worked fine again, so I pulled back into the shop and that's where she sits now. 

Does anyone have any ideas where I should go from here? The tractor had a stripped reverse gear when I bought it, so the first thing we did was split it and replaced the reverse gear and the idler, also put in a brand new clutch. Torque always worked great, and even now I can stall the engine by pressing the brakes in both direct drive and torque amplified, so it doesn't appear to be a torque issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I find it funny nobody has responded yet…

I would look into checking your MCV and MCV pump

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On 11/30/2020 at 3:29 PM, RedNwhite said:

Does anyone have any ideas where I should go from here?

It should probably go to a shop.  It needs a T/A and related parts. 

On 11/30/2020 at 3:29 PM, RedNwhite said:

Torque always worked great, and even now I can stall the engine by pressing the brakes in both direct drive and torque amplified, so it doesn't appear to be a torque issue.

You can't test a T/A if the tractor won't move.  I know the sprag is out of the T/A because it won't move.  I know the MCV pump is bad because you don't have any functions of that pump: steering, clutch or T/A. Better figure on a T/A and related parts. 

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10 minutes ago, J-Mech said:

It should probably go to a shop.  It needs a T/A and related parts. 

You can't test a T/A if the tractor won't move.  I know the sprag is out of the T/A because it won't move.  I know the MCV pump is bad because you don't have any functions of that pump: steering, clutch or T/A. Better figure on a T/A and related parts. 

I would be interested in knowing if the MCV Pump is bad or if there is a dramatic internal leak causing a pressure loss.

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5 minutes ago, 1586 Jeff said:

I would be interested in knowing if the MCV Pump is bad or if there is a dramatic internal leak causing a pressure loss.

Either way, sprag is out of the T/A, so it needs replaced.  Rebuilding the MCV and changing the pump is all part of putting in a torque.  No need to waste time diagnosing.  We know what it needs.  Might find what failed during the repair. 

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Maybe I missed it but are the rear hydraulics and PTO still working when the tractor stops moving?

If so I'd pull the mcv and check things but I agree will likely be a TA job. They don't last forever

You said it was split for the reverse gear. Did you have anything apart in TA housing when you did that job? 

 

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6 hours ago, db1486 said:

Maybe I missed it but are the rear hydraulics and PTO still working when the tractor stops moving?

If so I'd pull the mcv and check things but I agree will likely be a TA job. They don't last forever

You said it was split for the reverse gear. Did you have anything apart in TA housing when you did that job? 

 

those are totally different pumps that have no relation to the T/A or steering 

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2 hours ago, ksfarmdude said:

those are totally different pumps that have no relation to the T/A or steering 

I know I was just thinking if they aren't working then there is ipto gear or shaft troubles, which would cause the mcv pump to quit too. But would still pull in low

I agree the ta is gone, was just curious

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16 minutes ago, db1486 said:

I know I was just thinking if they aren't working then there is ipto gear or shaft troubles, which would cause the mcv pump to quit too. But would still pull in low

I agree the ta is gone, was just curious

Even if that is the problem, he will know when he splits it.  Tractor is coming apart to fix it, no matter what failed. 

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On 11/30/2020 at 3:29 PM, RedNwhite said:

I was finishing up the last bit of discing for the year the other day with the 1086 when my power steering and clutch would both get stiff on and off. I kept discing and a while later the steering stiffened up again and the tractor stopped moving, almost like I had shoved the clutch. I switched gears and finished discing. When I pulled out of the field I checked the fluid level and it was full. So I pulled onto the road in 2nd, shifted the torque ahead to direct drive and then shifted into 3rd gear, everything was working normally but then when I started down a slight hill I could feel the load come off the engine like it had disengaged, so I revved the throttle and sure enough it acted like I wasn't in gear again so I shoved the clutch (it was stiff) and stopped, shifted out of 3rd and right back into 3rd, let out the clutch and I started moving again, I felt a bit of a jump like I had shifted the T/A (which I hadn't moved) and away I went again only to have it disengage on the next downhill grade. This time I could not get moving again no matter what gear I was in or whether I had the T/A in direct or amplified, and the power steering and clutch were both stiff again. So I shut the tractor off to let it cool down and started it up 5 minutes later and everything worked perfect, power steering and clutch both felt normal, I could run in any gear and the T/A shifted beautifully in both directions. I got to the yard and unhooked the disc, drove up to the other shed and around the yard and then it started acting up again. 

Now I had around 300 hours on since we had changed the hydraulic filter so I knew the filter was overdue and thought maybe it was clogged. When I pulled the filter out I found what appeared to be part of a gasket lodged between the filter and the housing so I thought to myself, there's my problem. (It turns out it was actually half of a metal shim that goes on the wet brakes, no idea how it would have made its way to the filter, and I assume the other half of the shim is still inside the case somewhere) So I put a new hydraulic filter in, drained the hydraulic fluid to see what it looked like and refilled since it was clean. I started the tractor and pulled out of the shop and everything seemed to be working fine but the power steering and clutch were still a little stiff (not as bad as before but stiffer than normal) as soon as I was out the door the tractor stopped moving, I shoved the clutch and switched gears and still wouldn't move, so I pulled the T/A and then I was able to move, did a lap around the barn and then it stopped again, didn't matter what gear or what position of the torque, I could not get the tractor to move again, so I shut it off. While I was sitting there pondering the issue, I heard a clink or a clunk underneath me, and thought maybe something had gone into place so I started the tractor and sure enough everything worked fine again, so I pulled back into the shop and that's where she sits now. 

Does anyone have any ideas where I should go from here? The tractor had a stripped reverse gear when I bought it, so the first thing we did was split it and replaced the reverse gear and the idler, also put in a brand new clutch. Torque always worked great, and even now I can stall the engine by pressing the brakes in both direct drive and torque amplified, so it doesn't appear to be a torque issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

You can get by a long time with your ta yet. In theory it should pull with no hyd pressure. The noise you heard was sprague rolling back. Fix the MCV valve and pump you will go for a while until ta fails completely. 

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On 12/2/2020 at 8:40 PM, dale560 said:

You can get by a long time with your ta yet. In theory it should pull with no hyd pressure. The noise you heard was sprague rolling back. Fix the MCV valve and pump you will go for a while until ta fails completely. 

Sprague rolling back makes sense thanks! Mechanic and I looked at it again this week and 9 times out of 10 I can drive with the torque back so the torque isn't completely gone, just starting to get bad. We also had enough hyd pressure to drive with the torque ahead about half the times we tried so my pressure issue is intermittent which didn't make sense to him, he said usually when the pump starts to go the complaint he gets is no power steering when you start the tractor, but it gets better after running for a while, the intermittent thing threw him off the pump being bad. Ever since I changed the filter (and removed the shim piece), my power steering and clutch haven't been as stiff as they were the first time, but still stiffer than normal.

My only other thought (probably a long shot) is that the other half of the shim I found in the filter is stuck in the pickup tube on its way to the filter and is starving the pump? I got a cheap inspection camera with a magnet on the end so going to try fishing before I take the mcv/pump out. 

Sure don't want to split the tractor again after only 300 hours lol ?‍♂️ 

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8 minutes ago, RedNwhite said:

Sprague rolling back makes sense thanks! Mechanic and I looked at it again this week and 9 times out of 10 I can drive with the torque back so the torque isn't completely gone, just starting to get bad. We also had enough hyd pressure to drive with the torque ahead about half the times we tried so my pressure issue is intermittent which didn't make sense to him, he said usually when the pump starts to go the complaint he gets is no power steering when you start the tractor, but it gets better after running for a while, the intermittent thing threw him off the pump being bad. Ever since I changed the filter (and removed the shim piece), my power steering and clutch haven't been as stiff as they were the first time, but still stiffer than normal.

My only other thought (probably a long shot) is that the other half of the shim I found in the filter is stuck in the pickup tube on its way to the filter and is starving the pump? I got a cheap inspection camera with a magnet on the end so going to try fishing before I take the mcv/pump out. 

Sure don't want to split the tractor again after only 300 hours lol ?‍♂️ 

I reread your post and I would make sure filter isn’t leaking air.

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2 minutes ago, dale560 said:

I reread your post and I would make sure filter isn’t leaking air.

Where would it leak air, around the o-ring for the cover? (Think I forgot to coat it with fluid when I put the new filter in)

Mechanic also mentioned an mcv gasket could be leaking (quite a bit of residue on that side of the case and none on the filter side - everything was cleaned when we did the reverse gear and clutch)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, good news, I took the mcv apart, cleaned and inspected everything and put it back together and now the tractor is working 100%. Didn't see anything that looked bad when I was into it, no torn gaskets or broken springs and the pump had minimal internal wear. Only thing I found was that the larger o-ring on the intake side of the mcv pump didn't fill the entire groove in the face and was just barely above the surface, so I replaced it with a larger wire size. Heck of a job just to replace an o-ring, but I guess it was a cheap fix lol. 50 bucks in gaskets and a couple dollars worth of o-rings - good thing labour is free ?

 

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35 minutes ago, RedNwhite said:

Well, good news, I took the mcv apart, cleaned and inspected everything and put it back together and now the tractor is working 100%. Didn't see anything that looked bad when I was into it, no torn gaskets or broken springs and the pump had minimal internal wear. Only thing I found was that the larger o-ring on the intake side of the mcv pump didn't fill the entire groove in the face and was just barely above the surface, so I replaced it with a larger wire size. Heck of a job just to replace an o-ring, but I guess it was a cheap fix lol. 50 bucks in gaskets and a couple dollars worth of o-rings - good thing labour is free ?

 

T/A sprag is still bad.  Still needs a T/A.  

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