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I just made the mistake of running my TD-14 injector pump out of fuel so the motor died.  What are the odds of moving the throttle lever up enough to pump some fuel & bleed the injectors while running the motor on gas?

Vic

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Fill the fuel tank to the point that you can gravity fill the primary filter then fire up on gas bleed the secondary filter, crack the throttle and bleed the injectors.  good to go.  You might want to change the fuel filters at this time as who knows what you might have sucked up from the tank.

Gene

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Actually, the fuel tank was shut off & the filter (there's only one) was removed because the copper washer at the top was leaking.  I'd waited so long for a new washer that I'd forgotten all about it.   I'm sure I can check for air just before the pump & then bleed the injectors.  Thanks,  it sounds like we pretty much agree on how to get it going.

Vic

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1 hour ago, mmi said:

the IH pump was designed to do at least 1/2 the bleed/ fill when starting

start crack bleed screws watch gauge for good pressure run it

nothing like modern BS to bleed

A couple of things---my -14 has a Bosch pump on it. And it has no gauge.  I just found out that the washer holding me up is at the  post office.  I'll let you know how difficult it was to start.

Vic

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9 hours ago, mmi said:

pre war..IIRC there is still bleed screws on most inj,   and the bosch should perform like IH as it would be pumping on gas  otherwise not able to fire instantly on throttle up

I'll tell you in a few days.  I just got the much awaited copper washer so should be good to go!

Vic

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I've installed the much awaited fuel canister washer & fired up the motor on gas.  I tried bleeding the individual injectors but got nothing.  I switched to diesel anyway & it took off just fine.  The only problem was that the #1 decompression valve has stuck again.  I just put the valve cover & hood back on.  Can I put a bent piece of metal (such as a brake adjustment spoon) in the spark plug hole & push the valve back up to the diesel position, meaning---can the valve be reached through the spark plug hole?  I realize that I have to do it with the motor shut off so it might stick again as soon as I put it back in the gas position but maybe after a few times it will go up via its spring.

Vic

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10 minutes ago, farmalldr said:

The only part of the valve through the plug hole will be the valve stem.  Nothing really to pry on there.

Dennis

I was trying to get a visual on that system.  Where is the extra chamber, above or below the plug hole?  Would needle nose pliers do any good?

Vic

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Hi Vic, It has been so long ago for me on these engines I probably should not be involved but I'll try. Some one can correct me if wrong.  The plug hole is in the extra chamber.  When on gas the valve is open so the plug chamber is open to the combustion chamber lowering the compression.  The starting valve head is below the plug hole.  When in diesel mod the valve is shut which isolates the gas chamber from combustion.  Theoretically you can run on diesel with the plug removed if the valve is seating properly.  Not sure if you can reach the valve stem with pliers or not.  Might be worth a try.  You can check the condition of the starting valves by removing the plugs and cranking it over in diesel mod.  Good luck

Dennis 

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40 minutes ago, farmalldr said:

Hi Vic, It has been so long ago for me on these engines I probably should not be involved but I'll try. Some one can correct me if wrong.  The plug hole is in the extra chamber.  When on gas the valve is open so the plug chamber is open to the combustion chamber lowering the compression.  The starting valve head is below the plug hole.  When in diesel mod the valve is shut which isolates the gas chamber from combustion.  Theoretically you can run on diesel with the plug removed if the valve is seating properly.  Not sure if you can reach the valve stem with pliers or not.  Might be worth a try.  You can check the condition of the starting valves by removing the plugs and cranking it over in diesel mod.  Good luck

Dennis 

Thanks, Dennis---your explanation sounds plausible (and believable) to me.  I can see it now.  I will look into the plug hole but don't believe I can spread the pliers enough to grasp the valve stem after getting far enough in to touch it.  Your description of the plug hole being in the extra chamber was about all it took for me to "see" the picture.  I've told the story somewhere on one of these sites but will give you a chance for a laugh.  To unstick the valve,  I take the hood & valve cover off.  I then put the lever in diesel mode so the decompression valves are up (closed).  I put an air hammer to the top of the stuck valve & let it pound for awhile.  That lasts as long as I exercise the lever pretty often, whether I start the tractor or not.

Vic

Vic

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Just now, thebunns said:

Thanks, Dennis---your explanation sounds plausible (and believable) to me.  I can see it now.  I will look into the plug hole but don't believe I can spread the pliers enough to grasp the valve stem after getting far enough in to touch it.  Your description of the plug hole being in the extra chamber was about all it took for me to "see" the picture.  I've told the story somewhere on one of these sites but will give you a chance for a laugh.  To unstick the valve,  I take the hood & valve cover off.  I then put the lever in diesel mode so the decompression valves are up (closed).  I put an air hammer to the top of the stuck valve & let it pound for awhile.  That lasts as long as I exercise the lever pretty often, whether I start the tractor or not.

basically the easiest method

We have taken the actuator out ,removed the little hats, soaked with atf etc + mild heated for several weeks  and turned pulling up without destroying the stem.

otherwise need to use at least every other month to full temp and good cool down

rust and un burnt fuel just seems to hang them after too long

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Those pictures sure back up everything you said, Dennis.  I'm just trying to prevent taking the top end apart, if possible.  Maybe I'll dump some oil additive in and see if that helps after I free up the valve.  This tractor only gets run about once a month.  I try to keep it going to use as a backup to my TD-14A that does the winter snow plowing.  Also,  I use it to push snow back when necessary because its blade is easier to swing.  Snow plowing is the only work that either dozer gets to do.

Vic

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you check the small decompression valves by removing  them when running on diesel. dennis is correct and i have done this lots of times. if its possible u can make something to sneak in there and push up on the face of that valve to get it back up. best is to keep lubing it and work the lever making it close and open. must be carboned up in the guide. do the brake clean spray on it first and that should dissolve the carbon, then oil it up and work it up and down.

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Just now, rustred said:

you check the small decompression valves by removing  them when running on diesel. dennis is correct and i have done this lots of times. if its possible u can make something to sneak in there and push up on the face of that valve to get it back up. best is to keep lubing it and work the lever making it close and open. must be carboned up in the guide. do the brake clean spray on it first and that should dissolve the carbon, then oil it up and work it up and down.

i meant to say remove the spark plugs and make sure no compression is leaking on diesel . i  had a distraction.

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2 hours ago, rustred said:

i meant to say remove the spark plugs and make sure no compression is leaking on diesel . i  had a distraction.

I've checked the spark plug hole for compression leaks in the past.  I know the valve is stuck (I've unstuck it twice).  Where do I spray the brake clean spray?  Can I shoot it in the spark plug hole or do I need to do it from up top through the spring?

Vic

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10 hours ago, thebunns said:

I've checked the spark plug hole for compression leaks in the past.  I know the valve is stuck (I've unstuck it twice).  Where do I spray the brake clean spray?  Can I shoot it in the spark plug hole or do I need to do it from up top through the spring?

Vic

you would need to take the decompression stuff off and pull the  cap over the valve then  spray it around the spring and  use a dowel and keep pressing on the valve up and down tilll it pops up nice and free on its own. can spray some in the plug hole also. then blow the cyl out good with air.

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44 minutes ago, rustred said:

you would need to take the decompression stuff off and pull the  cap over the valve then  spray it around the spring and  use a dowel and keep pressing on the valve up and down tilll it pops up nice and free on its own. can spray some in the plug hole also. then blow the cyl out good with air.

Thanks for that explanation.  It seems like I tried & failed to get the cap off the top of the valve spring before.  It had been described to me how to do it but my setup was different than was described.  We'll see how things go!

Vic

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First off I must say that I have zero experience with gas start diesels but I have read many threads on this board and I do remember someone saying that they had success freeing up stuck starting valves with penetrating oil and needle nose pliers reaching through the spark plug hole. Perhaps the secret is in having the right size and shape of pliers.

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1 hour ago, chip man said:

First off I must say that I have zero experience with gas start diesels but I have read many threads on this board and I do remember someone saying that they had success freeing up stuck starting valves with penetrating oil and needle nose pliers reaching through the spark plug hole. Perhaps the secret is in having the right size and shape of pliers.

Totally possible, although I think it would be difficult to find a pair of pliers that would grip the stem strong enough to move it against the spring without buggering up the plug hole threads.  I just got in from working the starting valve on my -14 through the spark plug hole.  I noticed that when I moved the lever from start to diesel the valve was moving just a bit.  It's easy to spot in that the stem is discolored for about 1/4" next to the head between the two positions .  I sprayed a little silicon lubricant on the stem & then ran the lever up & down several times.  I sprayed it again & did the same.  It's working fine right now!  I'll get some brake parts cleaner in an attempt to help dissolve the carbon buildup & repeat the procedure.  I added the photo to "sort of" show the difference in colors on the stem.

Vic

294.JPG

Edited by thebunns
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Speaking of mistakes (distractions) I made it sound almost impossible to move the valve stem with needle nose pliers but you would only have to attempt to raise the stem, with the help of the spring.   When moving it back down, merely move the lever.

Vic

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Vic, use carb clean, not brake clean. The carb clean will dissolve the carbon.  You could try a set of these double jointed pliers.  I have a set and they work well at getting deep in holes.  Much better than regular Long reach needle nose.

https://www.harborfreight.com/13-in-long-reach-compound-joint-pliers-64108.html

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1 hour ago, Rawleigh99 said:

Vic, use carb clean, not brake clean. The carb clean will dissolve the carbon.  You could try a set of these double jointed pliers.  I have a set and they work well at getting deep in holes.  Much better than regular Long reach needle nose.

https://www.harborfreight.com/13-in-long-reach-compound-joint-pliers-64108.html

I just responded to your post but don't see it.  I thought as you do about the type cleaner to use.  I've ordered a can of StarBright carbon eliminator.  I'll see if it helps.

Vic

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