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The last AV ever made?


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I have an AV Serial number FAAV 220103. I was lookin at the new red power magazine with the list of first and last models known to exist, I noticed the last AV on the list was something like 220050 or something i dont remember off the top of my head. My only question is why it has All the things needed to make it a super ( hydraulics, rear lift etc.) and it has R casting codes all over, and a bell housing with a Q. So is this some sort prototype? I dont think someone just added hydraulic things because the codes match and everything is there. 

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E16644BD-21E1-4B42-8B01-4921ADAC5D79.jpeg

FF7136C2-D6D9-42D1-BF19-9D1C33D24AFF.jpeg

E3D9E746-851B-4FCD-B096-42D35E56A6E2.jpeg

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Let me just say...Cat among the pigeons..... ?    No matter what, thats a nice tractor, very interesting!   We are obviously going to need LOTS more pictures to be able to verify anything...:D:rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Let me just say...Cat among the pigeons..... ?    No matter what, thats a nice tractor, very interesting!   We are obviously going to need LOTS more pictures to be able to verify anything...:D:rolleyes:

When I get home I’ll post some more. ?These are from a year ago I sold all that spraying stuff since then.

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IIRC RPM  does not publish first and last # made

it is a compilation of MEMBER  ...high /LOw  #s reported to Sally as a surviving list

I along with other members have high/lower # but have chosen not to advertise

as some of the elites have done or spent $$$$$ to get or create x # 

Generally IH models started with 5 0 1 

production year calendar year and model year can be/are different days

NO ONE has the last # produced those are in a lawyers vault or tossed

R1 is irrelevant for dating year

3 digit cast # will get you close,but casting needs lead time of 2-9 months

in the case of 350 sales didnt meet supply so casting were passed/prototype d onto 330/340

we should do a list of cast dates on those and the actual  R # ?

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/18/2020 at 9:33 AM, EHauck 122 said:

I have an AV Serial number FAAV 220103. I was lookin at the new red power magazine with the list of first and last models known to exist, I noticed the last AV on the list was something like 220050 or something i dont remember off the top of my head. My only question is why it has All the thing needed to make it a super ( hydraulics,  rear lift etc.) and it has R casting codes all over. So is this some sort prototype? I dont think someone just added hydraulic things because the codes match and everything is there. 

A646838A-6EE8-4AD7-A03D-D75A783D8245.jpeg

E16644BD-21E1-4B42-8B01-4921ADAC5D79.jpeg

FF7136C2-D6D9-42D1-BF19-9D1C33D24AFF.jpeg

E3D9E746-851B-4FCD-B096-42D35E56A6E2.jpeg

Interesting.  I'm guessing somebody has switched seat brackets or something.  What is the engine serial number?

Either way, it looks like a good one.  I just got a Super AV this spring.  It'll take a lot to get it as nice as yours!

Al

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  • 4 months later...
On 12/4/2020 at 10:09 AM, Super A said:

Interesting.  I'm guessing somebody has switched seat brackets or something.  What is the engine serial number?

Either way, it looks like a good one.  I just got a Super AV this spring.  It'll take a lot to get it as nice as yours!

Al

The number on the engine is 257776 i’m not sure if this is correct or not but I have been told that once they got to the supers the numbers didn’t match because they were putting the 123 motors in a lot more things. 

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2 hours ago, EHauck 122 said:

The number on the engine is 257776 i’m not sure if this is correct or not but I have been told that once they got to the supers the numbers didn’t match because they were putting the 123 motors in a lot more things. 

What engine is it? I think it should be a C113 if it's an A or AV and a C123 it's a  super . 

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On 11/18/2020 at 11:46 AM, mmi said:

NO ONE has the last # produced those are in a lawyers vault or tossed

Depending on the model, this *is* available in the records on the Wisconsin historical society website. I'd look it up for the OP and share, but I'm on my phone right now and searching that site is tough on the phone

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11 hours ago, bitty said:

What engine is it? I think it should be a C113 if it's an A or AV and a C123 it's a  super . 

I’m not sure I’ve looked at the block but can’t find out.  where is that designation hiding? The part number on the block is 251089 but I’m not sure if that is the same for both

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11 minutes ago, EHauck 122 said:

I’m not sure I’ve looked at the block but can’t find out.  where is that designation hiding? The part number on the block is 251089 but I’m not sure if that is the same for both

The 113 block maybe never said that, 123 certainly did near or behind the oil filter or distributor area if I remember correctly

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10 hours ago, KWRB said:

Depending on the model, this *is* available in the records on the Wisconsin historical society website. I'd look it up for the OP and share, but I'm on my phone right now and searching that site is tough on the phone

I looked on there and I could only find the louisville production number for the A. There was no A list in the farmall works list. The last straight A was 220537 and they started the supers with 250001. 

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The production of the Farmall A got moved from Chicago to Louisville in 1947. I was able to find, on the Wisconsin Historical Society, a serial number list for 1947 Louisville production. The relevent page is shown below. The Serial numbers for the A and B got lumped together by IH. I'm not aware of a list that shows them individually. 

IH_AB.png

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1 hour ago, FarmallFan said:

The production of the Farmall A got moved from Chicago to Louisville in 1947. I was able to find, on the Wisconsin Historical Society, a serial number list for 1947 Louisville production. The relevent page is shown below. The Serial numbers for the A and B got lumped together by IH. I'm not aware of a list that shows them individually. 

IH_AB.png

That's what I was referring to. So if the serials are combined for A and B, then I have nothing further to suggest.


However, there are later records for C that are C only, while here shows SA and C combined, so go figure. 

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as noted on the document and in HISTORY books, several layers and eras of lawyers said to destroy the (xyz)documents

what other models can you find?

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10 minutes ago, KWRB said:

That's what I was referring to. So if the serials are combined for A and B, then I have nothing further to suggest.


However, there are later records for C that are C only, while here shows SA and C combined, so go figure. 

I've often wondered why IH combined the serials for the A & B and have never seen an explanation.

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43 minutes ago, FarmallFan said:

I've often wondered why IH combined the serials for the A & B and have never seen an explanation.

Maybe because it was built on the same platform and with just a few different parts it makes it an A verses a B 

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I don't spend as much time here as I used to, so I'm a little late to the party, but I'll take a stab at a few things: 

EHauck 122 I am pretty sure you have a Super AV and somebody swapped the seat bracket(s) with a regular AV.  The R casting codes say 1948 as does your engine serial number.  That engine is past the first run of Super A engines--their numbers are documented in the Louisville records at the WI Historical Society.

Super As got 113 engines.  The "Super" was more due to Touch Control hydraulics than engine size.  The Super A-1 in late '54 (That's A-One, not A-Eye) first got a 123.  (Of course it's easy to make a 113 into a 123 but that's a different discussion.)  

mmi The WI Historical Society has serial number info from several IH plants, including Farmall.  The Louisville records makes it easy to at least determine the month and year a tractor was built.  They usually have the first and last serial number of each model.  I think you are thinking about line set tickets/build cards being destroyed.

 

Al

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On 4/30/2021 at 1:15 AM, EHauck 122 said:

I looked on there and I could only find the louisville production number for the A. There was no A list in the farmall works list. The last straight A was 220537 and they started the supers with 250001. 

Farmall A and B were built at Tractor Works in Chicago not at Farmall Works until production moved to Louisville in 1947. Farmall A and B used the same serial number list. I have never found a factory list from 1944 until 1947 but 1939 until 1944 is listed.

Marty,NZ 

Screenshot_20210104-160015_Chrome.jpg

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On 5/5/2021 at 3:26 PM, Super A said:

EHauck 122 I am pretty sure you have a Super AV and somebody swapped the seat bracket(s) with a regular AV.  The R casting codes say 1948 as does your engine serial number.  That engine is past the first run of Super A engines--their numbers are documented in the Louisville records at the WI Historical Society.

So what I'm gathering is that I have one of the first Super AV's but the seat was swapped from the last regular AV known to exist??? I guess this could be possible but that seems like a 1 in 10,000,000 chance. Especially considering the rust on the bolts of the seat bracket, it matches all of the other bolts and looks like it has never been taken off. I understand the info on these tractors is really fuzzy but I believe there should be some better explaination.

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Well, the R casting codes don't lie. IH stopped making regular AV's in 1947, and started making Super AVs the same year. Your casting codes clearly place the tractor as a 1948. It also has Super AV features that a regular AV would not. Rumor has it that some of the last regular As had Super A engine blocks with a block-off plate for the hydraulic pump.

All the evidence points to a seat swap. The tractor is 72 years old, so you can't really go by "rust." 50 year old rust looks the same as 72 year old rust.

Is it plausible that they happened to have an old AV seat base at the assembly line and threw it on a Super AV? Sure. Plausible, but there are more plausible explanations.

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On 5/7/2021 at 8:33 AM, EHauck 122 said:

So what I'm gathering is that I have one of the first Super AV's but the seat was swapped from the last regular AV known to exist??? I guess this could be possible but that seems like a 1 in 10,000,000 chance. Especially considering the rust on the bolts of the seat bracket, it matches all of the other bolts and looks like it has never been taken off. I understand the info on these tractors is really fuzzy but I believe there should be some better explaination.

 

On 5/7/2021 at 9:52 AM, Matt Kirsch said:

Well, the R casting codes don't lie. IH stopped making regular AV's in 1947, and started making Super AVs the same year. Your casting codes clearly place the tractor as a 1948. It also has Super AV features that a regular AV would not. Rumor has it that some of the last regular As had Super A engine blocks with a block-off plate for the hydraulic pump.

All the evidence points to a seat swap. The tractor is 72 years old, so you can't really go by "rust." 50 year old rust looks the same as 72 year old rust.

Is it plausible that they happened to have an old AV seat base at the assembly line and threw it on a Super AV? Sure. Plausible, but there are more plausible explanations.

I believe Matt Kirsch has the best explanation we can come up with after 70+ years.  The tractor is for sure a Super AV with a plain AV serial number plate.  While the number on the tag is very close to the end of A/AV production for sure, it just about has to have been swapped out later in the tractor's life.  Why, and when, is anybody's guess but the R casting codes give it away as being built no earlier than the part with the latest casting date in 48. When you add in the engine serial number, someone swapping out the seat bracket from an earlier tractor is about the only explanation.  Although production was more important than attention to details at the time, I don't see them making a mistake that big at the factory, but who knows.  

Just out of curiosity, what is the month/day on the casting codes?  That will get you a little closer to the actual date it was built.  I am going to guess that the tractor was probably built between May-July of 1948.

 

Al

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