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?? for the electricians here........


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The current wood shop.   The radial arm saw started smoking yesterday, ( I think it's junk) and today the table saw, I can kill it by ripping a 2x4. What gives?? Maybe just a coincidence that they both crapped at the same time?? The wife said it sure sounds electrical and I have to agree, but everything else is running fine. Dust collector is fine, air compressor is fine, I even tried the air conditioner and it works ok. Each saw is on a dedicated circuit. Both are 110V. Both are wired with 10 gauge. 

I have additional saws that I can use, but these are tuned to cut true square. They are my go to saws. Any thoughts? Just seems odd that they both died at the same time. 

Nothing has changed as far as the wiring coming into the building. Had they been 220v I could understand this if one side was dead, but like I said they are both 110. The air conditioner is 220 and it works fine.    

I suggested maybe new saws were in order.....I won't repeat the verbal response I got to that suggestion. Let's just say I can sneak the occasional $100 router bit etc. past the keeper of the check book but a couple thousand may be a bit more difficult.

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1 where does the power to the shop come from? 
2 what isnit fed with? Gauge and wire type,

3 what is the ACTUAL voltage at your shop? 
if you have a long run to feed it and your wire is undersized or damaged the starting of motors is going to be effected . Sounds to me like a classic case of low voltage 

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Thanks. That is what I was thinking but didn't see any broken wire overhead. This has been running fine for the past 20 years. I'll check down stream from this building as I have some stuff (planer etc.) that will draw a bunch of juice and see if they still function ok.

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Low voltage sometimes doesn’t show up until you start using something. ( putting the circuit under load ). If the saws you describe are 120v 20amp plugs then a good tester is a hair dryer. Your saw doesn’t draw full amperage until your actually sawing wood and it’s difficult to test voltage then. Plug in the hair dryer and set it on high heat. Lay it somewhere safe and running and test your voltage.

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Can you get your utility to check it out for you?

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I'm far from an expert but if you have smoked 1 maybe 2 saws from low voltage i wouldnt think testing by trying more of your equipment would be a good idea unless you want to replace it all!!  Think Marks idea is a good one with the hair dryer?

And if the saws were good quality saws wouldn't it be cheaper to replace or rebuild the motors rather than spend a couple grand on new ones? 

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10 hours ago, ThirdGenRed said:

Loose neutral in overhead connection would be my guess. Will have full voltage until you put a load on it.

X2. And none of the 240 volt stuff will be affected. Classic loose neutral the way it sounds. You need to check voltage with a meter. L1-L2, L1-N, L2-N. Check it with no load and again with the hair dryer or a milkhouse heater on high. The voltage should not change much. If the Line to Neutral voltage becomes unbalanced say 100&140, 60&180 or worse then the neutral is loose somewhere between the panel and the utility source. 

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19 hours ago, ThirdGenRed said:

Loose neutral in overhead connection would be my guess. Will have full voltage until you put a load on it.

Could be, without electronics and only using one tool at a time it might present this way, usually people complain about some lights being dim and some bright, @dads706 do you have this? 

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2 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

Could be, without electronics and only using one tool at a time it might present this way, usually people complain about some lights being dim and some bright, @dads706 do you have this? 

The reason I was thinking neutral is because the OP said the 220 AC works fine. Today's electronic driven lights don't always get dim or bright like incandescent lamps do. 

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7 minutes ago, 12_Guy said:

The reason I was thinking neutral is because the OP said the 220 AC works fine. Today's electronic driven lights don't always get dim or bright like incandescent lamps do. 

I missed that part of the op

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Thanks for the advice guys. I called the local electrician with his bucket truck. He's coming the next couple days when he has time. I let you know what we find.

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another thought; do you have 3 phase in your area and was their any line work recently.

got a service call to a restaurant that lost all the business equipment after Detroit Edison got the phases switch.

Mike

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5 minutes ago, cobfly said:

I am "neutral" in regards to this conversation.

Yea, but are you a well grounded person?

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1 minute ago, Steve C. said:

Yea, but are you a well grounded person?

Mostly, but sometimes what comes out of my mouth is shocking.

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1 hour ago, cobfly said:

Mostly, but sometimes what comes out of my mouth is shocking.

I was gonna say you're being negative, but figured you might think I was being short with you.

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4 hours ago, Steve C. said:

I was gonna say you're being negative, but figured you might think I was being short with you.

Not to worry, I will not get amped up over any of your comments.

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19 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

We all need to calm down here... all together with me now “ohm, Ohhhhhm , Ohhhhhhhhhhhm”

Resistance can be a good thing.

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Somehow none of this surprises me......I was almost positive this thread would come to this.

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22 minutes ago, dads706 said:

Somehow none of this surprises me......I was almost positive this thread would come to this.

Red Power Forum.

Home of silly puns, weirdly disappearing political discussions, and Yellow Wonder Bucket Oil Threads!!!

Oh yeah, also the best source of International Harvester information from some pretty good folks!!!

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1 hour ago, dads706 said:

Somehow none of this surprises me......I was almost positive this thread would come to this.

Nah.  I had alternating thoughts

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