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Upgrading balers


ZG6E
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I am thinking about sidelining my br7090 to backup duty and buying a newer baler. I have been very happy with NH balers thus far so I am thinking of going to a NH RB560 or Case IH RB565. Is the upgraded pickup worth the extra money or would I be better off to just find another BR7090 (preferably a specialty crop) with lower bale count. 

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My 7090 is right at 20000 bales, endless belts, bale slice. been a good baler. Couple times a summer needs a box of tines on pickup, usually after the rocky straw  fields. Got a 560 Bale Slice Plus on order for next summer. It will have the 5 bar pickup with rubber mtd teeth. I'm 60 so it will be my last, but my buddies remind me thats what i said about the 7090.    :lol:

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The Specialty Crop pickup on the 560/RB565 is what the BR series should have had right away in 2003. Huge center tube instead of that flimsy hex shaft, 4 center discs, split tine bars, tine bars are 1-1/16 solid shaft instead of 3/4 sch 40 pipe, greatly improved rubber mounted tines, and a rotary feeder instead of a reciprocating feeder.  In dry cornstalks my 560s run about 20% more bales per hour than my BR series balers did, and they were tweaked for more throughput than factory. In tough  conditions that advantage moves to more like 100% more throughput. Downsides. Net wrap system is way touchier than the BR. Tail length and brake release adjustments are critical. Sensors are prone to problems with ferrous dust accumulating on them and giving false readings. The declutch also was a source of trouble, finally just eliminated them. The 560s like a little more power than the BRs, more ground speed usually and they are a heavier baler. 
 

Makes the same beautiful bales the BRs did. 

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5 hours ago, Gearclash said:

The Specialty Crop pickup on the 560/RB565 is what the BR series should have had right away in 2003. Huge center tube instead of that flimsy hex shaft, 4 center discs, split tine bars, tine bars are 1-1/16 solid shaft instead of 3/4 sch 40 pipe, greatly improved rubber mounted tines, and a rotary feeder instead of a reciprocating feeder.  In dry cornstalks my 560s run about 20% more bales per hour than my BR series balers did, and they were tweaked for more throughput than factory. In tough  conditions that advantage moves to more like 100% more throughput. Downsides. Net wrap system is way touchier than the BR. Tail length and brake release adjustments are critical. Sensors are prone to problems with ferrous dust accumulating on them and giving false readings. The declutch also was a source of trouble, finally just eliminated them. The 560s like a little more power than the BRs, more ground speed usually and they are a heavier baler. 
 

Makes the same beautiful bales the BRs did. 

One thing I will say is the new holland bales I have seen are tight and round. Well packed.

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Well I made a deal on a new 2017 holdover rb560 specialty crop. It’s not exactly what I want but for the price no one could come close. It is very oddly equipped which explains it not selling already. It doesn’t have the 21.5 tires or endless belts and it’s a 540 pto. It’s also going to be a 900 mile pull to get it home but I plan to take the tires off my old baler so I’m not wearing out the brand new ones. 
 

https://www.swiderskipower.net/inventory/?/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/195176697/2017-new-holland-roll-belt-560?dlr=1&pcid=2937439&domainid=0&crmid=0

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The 540 pto is a plus in my book.  The CV joint will last 2 or 3x as long as the 1000s.  The BR 1000s were really short lived.  The 560s have a size heavier PTO for the 1000 and they still don’t last like the 540 on a BR will.

Be sure it is for real a Specialty Crop.  I thought they all had 21.5 tires and endless belts in addition to the heavy pickup components.  

I looked at the listing.  That baler does have the in cab density control which was an option not all Specialty Crop balers have, and caster wheels on the pickup which was an option.  Looks like a nice baler.  Should be mechanically the same as my 560s which are 2018s.  There are some things I would recommend doing to it if you get it home to get the most out of it.

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29 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

The 540 pto is a plus in my book.
 

There are some things I would recommend doing to it if you get it home to get the most out of it.

The only reason I’m not crazy about the 540 is because it limits the tractors I can use on it. I have used my 5488 on the baler before and I liked it- plenty of power pulling hills compared to my 186. 
 

I’m all ears for modifications. I do plan to build a bracket to hold the hoses and wiring. 

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1 hour ago, ZG6E said:

Well I made a deal on a new 2017 holdover rb560 specialty crop. It’s not exactly what I want but for the price no one could come close. It is very oddly equipped which explains it not selling already. It doesn’t have the 21.5 tires or endless belts and it’s a 540 pto. It’s also going to be a 900 mile pull to get it home but I plan to take the tires off my old baler so I’m not wearing out the brand new ones. 
 

https://www.swiderskipower.net/inventory/?/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/195176697/2017-new-holland-roll-belt-560?dlr=1&pcid=2937439&domainid=0&crmid

You won't be to far from our area??? that looks like a nice baler, we have a rb465, and we don't have in-cab density or a cut out clutch, the cut out clutch would probably be one of the first upgrades I would do to ours

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10 minutes ago, VacDaddyt said:

That many miles I would put it on a deck over on blocks and let it rip down the road.

Concur. Those balers have pads on the axle for dunnage. Load it on the trailer hitch back, take the wheels off and set the axle on blocks, put a bolt upside down in the hitch and put a block under that.  2 chains on the axle, 2 chains and binders on the bolt in the hitch. Just be aware that a 5x6 baler is a bit top heavy on a trailer. Don’t put the baler very far ahead of the trailer axles or it will be less stable. 

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5 hours ago, ZG6E said:

The only reason I’m not crazy about the 540 is because it limits the tractors I can use on it. I have used my 5488 on the baler before and I liked it- plenty of power pulling hills compared to my 186. 
 

I’m all ears for modifications. I do plan to build a bracket to hold the hoses and wiring. 

First off, take a look at the 2018 balers.  Mine have a very nice support for the hoses and cables.  

The local dealers have been retiming the finger to auger relationship on the overshot feeder to gain capacity and prevent rocks from lodging between the end of the auger flight and the nearest tine finger.  They are also adding the missing fingers in the windgaurd.

I ran into problems in certain crops and conditions where crop stems would lodge behind the unwelded portions of the rods on the starter roll.  The result was net winding on the starter roll instead of going on the bale.  I welded the rods 100% on one side to eliminate that problem.  

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4 hours ago, WisIHCFarmer said:

You won't be to far from our area??? that looks like a nice baler, we have a rb465, and we don't have in-cab density or a cut out clutch, the cut out clutch would probably be one of the first upgrades I would do to ours

If you are referring to the apron belt declutch, I would NOT install it unless you absolutely need it because your tractor hydraulics are too slow to open the door fast enough to avoid net damage.  The declutch was a mild source of trouble on the BR balers I had, it was a major source of trouble on the 560s. Cam rollers would fail, the fork wouldn’t stay centered on the clutch half, the chain linkage would break regularly, then before 5000 bales the jaws started slipping on both balers. Finally I eliminated them and won’t go back.

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9 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

If you are referring to the apron belt declutch, I would NOT install it unless you absolutely need it because your tractor hydraulics are too slow to open the door fast enough to avoid net damage.  The declutch was a mild source of trouble on the BR balers I had, it was a major source of trouble on the 560s. Cam rollers would fail, the fork wouldn’t stay centered on the clutch half, the chain linkage would break regularly, then before 5000 bales the jaws started slipping on both balers. Finally I eliminated them and won’t go back.

I'm referring to the main slip clutch, ours just has the traditional slip clutch with wear discs in it, at the dealer this spring they said that now you can get a slip clutch that doesn't slip as it were, it just kicks out under too high of load. I saw in the description that this one has it.

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The belt declutch was a problem on our 560, went through 3 of them in 15k bales when we talked to another service guy that said you could just do away with them. Wish we were told that after the first one at 500 dollars a crack.

Gearclash can you give a more details or pictures of what you have done to cure the wrapping of the net wrap and stems on the starter roll, we traded our 2016 in on a 2020 and have been having this trouble? 

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2 hours ago, HB5288 said:

The belt declutch was a problem on our 560, went through 3 of them in 15k bales when we talked to another service guy that said you could just do away with them. Wish we were told that after the first one at 500 dollars a crack.

Gearclash can you give a more details or pictures of what you have done to cure the wrapping of the net wrap and stems on the starter roll, we traded our 2016 in on a 2020 and have been having this trouble? 

I thought the 2020 models had no rods on the starter roll.  That was NH’s solution to that problem; personally, I don’t like the idea of a smooth starter roll.

Unfortunately I lost all the pictures I had of the starter roll stem/netwrap problem and the cure for it, but they really aren’t that necessary.  If you are having trouble with stems catching behind the rods, you will see them there.  Solution is to weld the gaps between the stitch welds on the leading side of the rod so there are no gaps of un welded rod for stems to get behind.  Be careful when doing the welding that heat buildup is evenly distributed on the roll, and also be obsessive about cleaning up spatter and roughness after welding.  Any spatter or roughness can also cause net to wrap on the starter roll.

A thread I started on haytalk on the starter roll subject, has the pictures I lost. https://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/95722-new-holland-560-smooth-starter-roll/

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The "Bale Slice Plus" that i have on order has a "25% heavier belt declutch" according to the list of different components on this model  a dealer from WI gave me. I asked him why and he said due to a high failure rate. That was news to me as i have ran several to 20000+ bales and have never laid a wrench on any belt declutch. Fun fact- on my 1st 3 balers, NH 850s, after wrapping you shut the PTO off, opened tailgate, started PTO ejecting bale, closed tailgate. Damage to twine resulted if PTO was left on.

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8 hours ago, Gearclash said:

I thought the 2020 models had no rods on the starter roll.  That was NH’s solution to that problem; personally, I don’t like the idea of a smooth starter roll.

Unfortunately I lost all the pictures I had of the starter roll stem/netwrap problem and the cure for it, but they really aren’t that necessary.  If you are having trouble with stems catching behind the rods, you will see them there.  Solution is to weld the gaps between the stitch welds on the leading side of the rod so there are no gaps of un welded rod for stems to get behind.  Be careful when doing the welding that heat buildup is evenly distributed on the roll, and also be obsessive about cleaning up spatter and roughness after welding.  Any spatter or roughness can also cause net to wrap on the starter roll.

A thread I started on haytalk on the starter roll subject, has the pictures I lost. https://www.haytalk.com/forums/topic/95722-new-holland-560-smooth-starter-roll/

I think maybe while the baler is still brand new with no chaff to risk catching it on fire I’ll weld the rods all the way across. I think I’ll just lay a cold bead with my mig since it doesn’t need to be strong and that will minimize chance of warpage and splatter.  

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2 hours ago, ZG6E said:

I think maybe while the baler is still brand new with no chaff to risk catching it on fire I’ll weld the rods all the way across. I think I’ll just lay a cold bead with my mig since it doesn’t need to be strong and that will minimize chance of warpage and splatter.  

Make sure you buzz off the paint first or your welds won’t look so nice.  I tried .025 wire on the first baler I did, didn’t like how it turned out.  Used regular .035 on the second baler, made a nicer weld actually.  Just make sure you spread the heat out on the roll while you weld, and ground directly to the roll so the bearings don’t have current running through them.

 

I was going to mention earlier and forgot, if you plan to tow this baler home, make sure you use at least a 3/4 ton, preferably a 1 ton and with a Diesel engine to weight the front of the pickup down. The 560s are quite hitch heavy,  noticeably more so than a 7090. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I ended up just having it hauled home. I just couldn’t find the time to go get it myself even though I wanted to. It’s tucked away in the shop until next June. 

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1 hour ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Interesting planter trailer you have there.   Wheels lift hydraulically at the far back??

Yes front and back both lift hydraulically. It has a self contained pump but it’s shot so I just run it off tractor remotes. I’ll try to get some pictures of if sometime 

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38 minutes ago, Butch-Ky said:

Nice Shop

Thanks. I’ve been working on it for a couple years and I’ve still got quite a ways to go. I did hire the concrete out though.  Just got it done in September. 

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