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IH 684 turbo questions


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Hello there,

Thanks for accepting me in the group! I will be having a lot of questions!

I bought a IH 684, no rear wheels, it has a cab, torque amplifier and the engine has a turbo.

It was an estate sale, and apparently the man (who passed away) was a fiddler, and I have no idea why he pulled the sump, but I am putting it back together to see if it will run, then what work will be needed. My first question is, is the oil pump in the correct position? It looks like it is sitting too high to pick up oil.

What model is the engine? It looks like it is factory turbo. Is the sump filler correctly extended? 

Thanks in advance!

Joshua

Disclaimer - I am not a 'complete' mechanic, I am working on these old tractors as a practical 'school' to teach me with!

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You got some big problems to work out on that one....  inside of that motor is pretty rusty. That thing is probably stuck tight.  Waste of time trying to get it to run.

Oil sump isn't there.  Won't pick up oil without it.... or the oil pan. 

Turbo isn't factory. 684 was a NA tractor.

Engine is an IH, German built, D239.

I think I would part that out.  Looks like that's what the old man was doing with it.

Just curious.... are you out of high school? 

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There was a DT239, but I do not believe it was ever sold in the US.  I know that it was never installed in the 684.  Is this not a North American tractor?  

I'm glad you have time to waste.  In my opinion, experience is a good teacher but only if you have a good base on which to build, or one already built.  Learning without a teacher takes much longer, and no guarantee you will learn correctly.  It's a good way to form bad habits and practices.  My experience tells me to walk away from that project and find one less challenging.  And I could put it back together no problem, but wouldn't want to. I suggest enrolling in a tech school if you are interested in learning how to be a mechanic. 

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1 hour ago, J-Mech said:

There was a DT239, but I do not believe it was ever sold in the US.  I know that it was never installed in the 684.  Is this not a North American tractor?  

I'm glad you have time to waste.  In my opinion, experience is a good teacher but only if you have a good base on which to build, or one already built.  Learning without a teacher takes much longer, and no guarantee you will learn correctly.  It's a good way to form bad habits and practices.  My experience tells me to walk away from that project and find one less challenging.  And I could put it back together no problem, but wouldn't want to. I suggest enrolling in a tech school if you are interested in learning how to be a mechanic. 

IMO For a project like this all the info you need is on the web. Youtube has countless video's of any kind of repairs known to man kind. I'm not saying they are all done correctly might need to sort through the BS.  Some individuals are gifted enough to be self taught or OJT works too. 

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I sure didn’t start with anything that challenging, but pretty much taught myself how to mechanic. I have sure learned a lot over the years by studying the IH service manuals. The stuff I learned out of the truck manuals especially is unbelievable. Not saying that tech school is a bad idea, but it is possible to learn on your own with the right resources.

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6 hours ago, J-Mech said:

There was a DT239, but I do not believe it was ever sold in the US.  I know that it was never installed in the 684.  Is this not a North American tractor?  

Cab style looks to be the UK type one we didn't get, so likely same to say he's outside US/Can, wonder if someone slapped a DT239 in back in the day? 

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4 minutes ago, 495man said:

Cab style looks to be the UK type one we didn't get, so likely same to say he's outside US/Can, wonder if someone slapped a DT239 in back in the day? 

Interesting...yes, I am in New Zealand. Is it an uncommon cab style? Does the 239DT2D664267* etc in the serial number mean turbo or not? Thanks

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6 hours ago, J-Mech said:

 

I'm glad you have time to waste.  In my opinion, experience is a good teacher but only if you have a good base on which to build, or one already built.  Learning without a teacher takes much longer, and no guarantee you will learn correctly.  It's a good way to form bad habits and practices.  My experience tells me to walk away from that project and find one less challenging.  And I could put it back together no problem, but wouldn't want to. I suggest enrolling in a tech school if you are interested in learning how to be a mechanic. 

What business is it of yours what young folks or anyone for that matter do in their spare time? Not everyone wants to go through 4 years of trade school just because they want to tinker on a few old tractors. The first thing you do whenever a new member comes along is to ask how old they are or what grade they are in. Attitudes like that will turn more away from the hobby than "wasted time on a piece of junk" ever will. Funny, you went on and on that you don't have the extra time to waste in turning a crankshaft twice when setting valves, but you have time to post on nearly every single thread on here telling everyone how stupid they are... 

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Valiant Farmer: Your pics of the underside of the engine don't show the full view, but I am assuming the pan was removed to address a balancer issue. check the condition of the ring gear on the crankshaft. if the gear teeth are all in good condition, that is a major bonus.

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8 hours ago, 806 man said:

IMO For a project like this all the info you need is on the web. Youtube has countless video's of any kind of repairs known to man kind. I'm not saying they are all done correctly might need to sort through the BS.  Some individuals are gifted enough to be self taught or OJT works too. 

Ahhhh yes.  YouTube.  So many YouTube videos to search.  You can't sort out the BS if you don't know the difference between the good ones and the bad.  That takes experience.  If you have no training and no experience, you listed to whoever steps up to the microphone.  

Self taught is fine once you have a base on which to build.  When it comes to most all things, you can't build your own foundation.  OJT works because someone or multiple someones are teaching, training and helping you learn foundational information on which you can build.

 

7 hours ago, DaveinSD said:

I sure didn’t start with anything that challenging, but pretty much taught myself how to mechanic. I have sure learned a lot over the years by studying the IH service manuals. The stuff I learned out of the truck manuals especially is unbelievable. Not saying that tech school is a bad idea, but it is possible to learn on your own with the right resources.

A service manual tells you about a particular engine.  It does not teach you fundamental information about all engines.  There are lots of things you can't learn from reading a service manual.  You might be able to fix some of your stuff, but I doubt you would fare well when pitted against someone who has been trained.  

Here's a great example.  I have a friend.  He's a great guy.  Has a big family, married a wonderful woman.  Known both he and his wife as far back as I can remember.  Went all through school with both of them.  His wife and I rode the bus together, and only lived a few miles apart.  Anyway..... great people.  Nice people.  He decided he would teach himself how to paint.  Like automotive paint.  Asked some questions, read some stuff and started painting.  Painted his tractors, a truck of his, then started painting tractors for other people.  No one taught him anything.  HE IS TERRIBLE.  You can't get better if no one points out your mistakes.  You also can't get better if you can't see the mistakes.  You could park a Chip Foose paint job next to this guys, and he literally thinks they are at least in the same ballpark as far as quality.  He just can't see it.  He has the most heart, the most "try" of anyone I've ever known in my life.  Guy just doesn't know the word quit.  But he can't paint.  He sure still does it though.  But he's no good at it. 

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.  Just because you do, doesn't mean you are any good.  Self taught is self taught.  Trained is trained.  They aren't he same thing. 

 

3 hours ago, 495man said:

Cab style looks to be the UK type one we didn't get, so likely same to say he's outside US/Can, wonder if someone slapped a DT239 in back in the day? 

Very likely.  

 

3 hours ago, Valiant Farmer said:

Interesting...yes, I am in New Zealand. Is it an uncommon cab style? Does the 239DT2D664267* etc in the serial number mean turbo or not? Thanks

Sorry, YES.  I should have stated that earlier.  The engine model/serial number does indicate that it has a correct turbocharged engine in it.  But it could not have been installed from the factory.  The 684 was a naturally aspirated tractor. 

 

1 hour ago, Farmall Doctor said:

What business is it of yours what young folks or anyone for that matter do in their spare time? Not everyone wants to go through 4 years of trade school just because they want to tinker on a few old tractors. The first thing you do whenever a new member comes along is to ask how old they are or what grade they are in. Attitudes like that will turn more away from the hobby than "wasted time on a piece of junk" ever will. Funny, you went on and on that you don't have the extra time to waste in turning a crankshaft twice when setting valves, but you have time to post on nearly every single thread on here telling everyone how stupid they are... 

Anytime someone comes onto the World Wide Web and posts on an open forum that I, you and others are also member of, their business now becomes my business, and yours honestly.  You invite it in when you post.  Just like it frankly is none of your business how much time I have to post on here, or how I conduct myself online.  It is no more your business what questions I may choose to ask, whether they seem relevant to you or not, they are none of your business.  That said, I don't care how you feel about my opinions and personality.  I will conduct myself on here as I choose, ask the questions I choose, help who I choose, and ignore who I choose.  I do not think this is a "hobby".  Being a mechanic is a job.  Being a farmer is a job.... well, it's more of a lifestyle.  I don't know what part of either is a hobby.  And some people need turned away, because they are no good at something.  The world actually needs more teachers and parents to say, "Hey, you need to explore other things because although you are passionate about that, you aren't any good at it."  My advice to him is he took on far to large of a project for a first project.  Age of poster also plays a lot into how to give advice, or whether I want to give advice.  You can't give meat to a baby.  They can't eat it.

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1 hour ago, Farmall Doctor said:

What business is it of yours what young folks or anyone for that matter do in their spare time? Not everyone wants to go through 4 years of trade school just because they want to tinker on a few old tractors. The first thing you do whenever a new member comes along is to ask how old they are or what grade they are in. Attitudes like that will turn more away from the hobby than "wasted time on a piece of junk" ever will. Funny, you went on and on that you don't have the extra time to waste in turning a crankshaft twice when setting valves, but you have time to post on nearly every single thread on here telling everyone how stupid they are... 

Amen FD, Amen.................

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Experience is gained by trying, even when you realize you just did it wrong. It all adds to knowledge.

I think the dt 239 was in the TD 8 dozer. I have a 684 and love it. I’d like to know what it would be like with a turbo!

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Not to get off track for OP, but when you get to a fork in the road of life, stop and think it thru. Then go with your best decision, if it's wrong call it experience, if right call it success. Rome wasn't built in a day. 

11 hours ago, Valiant Farmer said:

Is the sump filler correctly extended? 

Yes you will need REF # 24image.thumb.png.18321710fb91e7680ee6708c59a4333a.png

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JM what you consistently display is the pattern of a bully, apparently young and old alike are fair game as you seem to seek this info out before unleashing your poison, in another thread you talked about your youth and upbringing to justify his holy highnesses stance and then elaborate on doing the same raising your kids, all I can say is what I see you presenting on here at times has nothing to be admired, as you say you are entitled to comment as you see fit in the security of your man cave until you are banned...

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Hi, I know the DT-239 was used in tractors in Europe and my cousin had a CIH 5110 here in Canada that had a DT-239. I remember a discussion on one of the tractor boards about the differences between a D-239 and a DT-239 as someone wanted to add a turbo to a D-239.
For info German Neuss engines see: http://www.ihace.de/
For European manuals on 674 with D-239 very similar to 684 and basic service for DT-239 engine.
see: https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/121219-d239-674-engine-manual-pdf/

Here is a youtube video overhauling a D-206 German Neuss engine which is just a smaller version of D-239.
see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac-CywbBuNE

I have a detailed German Neuss workshop manual, email me if you want a copy. 

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Just now, jimb2 said:

Hi, I know the DT-239 was used in tractors in Europe

I knew that is was, but not in a 684, correct? 

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J-Mech, you are correct it was never in a 684 as I mentioned the only CIH tractor I ever saw a DT-239 turbo in was the cousins 5110 but I looked on Tractordata and they don't have any 5110 tractors listed only 5120 with 239 CI CDC turbocharged after cooled diesel. Was 5110 a very early Maxxum that was replaced by 5120?

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12 minutes ago, jimb2 said:

Was 5110 a very early Maxxum that was replaced by 5120?

I do not know.  More likely is that it was added later as a non turbo version of the 5120.  I can find no record of the existence of a 5110 either. 

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CDC stands for Cummins Diesel Corporation.  You are correct.  My brain was in a different mode and I didn't think about that.  Two completely different engine manufacturers, same cubic inches. 

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I always heard it was Consolidated Diesel Corporation, joint ownership  between CaseIH and Cummins. Not that it matters much. 

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2 hours ago, TomH said:

Experience is gained by trying, even when you realize you just did it wrong. It all adds to knowledge.

I think the dt 239 was in the TD 8 dozer. I have a 684 and love it. I’d like to know what it would be like with a turbo!

684 is stout for its size I bet it would be mean with a turbo.

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If you look at the link I posted for German Neuss engines the D-239 had the highest production numbers at 274,435 of any of the Neuss engines, the DT-239 only 20,809. 

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6 hours ago, jimb2 said:

J-Mech, you are correct it was never in a 684 as I mentioned the only CIH tractor I ever saw a DT-239 turbo in was the cousins 5110 but I looked on Tractordata and they don't have any 5110 tractors listed only 5120 with 239 CI CDC turbocharged after cooled diesel. Was 5110 a very early Maxxum that was replaced by 5120?

Right, 4cyl 5100 Maxxums used CDC 3.9, The 5120 used a 3.9 Cummins, 5130 and 5140 used the 5.9 Cummins. 

I thought the only thing to use a DT-239 was a Crawler of some sort. 

I can't see the 5110 using something other than a 3.9,  was made same era as a 5120, just the "small" model.  Kind of like we didn't get a 3210 or 4220.

The 5110 is in one of the IH books I have.

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