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Hi guys,

In an effort to find the answer on my own and not have to rehash a topic that has surely been beat to death, I have searched this forum and some other places, but to no avail. Either I can't find the answer or I'm not smart enough to understand the answer.... so, here it goes. (Also, thank you for the help with all my other 886 woes. You guys are awesome!):D

I have abandoned the PTO pump and mid-mount valve and plumbed the loader lift and tilt direct to the remotes on the 886, purged the air and topped off the hydraulic system.

1 - Loader is gosh awful slow. Is this normal for the little tractors?

2 - Loader won't lift front end of tractor off the ground. Hardly takes up slack in loader pins.

3 - I can hear a "relief" sound at max cylinder stroke going up and when fully tilted.

4 - PTO is strong if that means anything.

5 - 3PT seems to work as usual.

6 - Steering is strong and sequels hard on full turn like it always has.

7 - TA shifts strong, brakes are very good, everything responds fast and well except the loader on the remotes.

So, where do I need to check pressures, what order do I check them in, and what other info do you need to tell me what to do next?

Don't worry, I'm almost done with this thing, I think, and will quit pestering you guys for info soon, we all hope!🤣 After that, it's off to the hobby ranch for a slow painful death.... Maybe for both of us....

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First off, brakes, TA and power steering are on a different pump from main hydraulics, so the fact that they work does not reflect anything.

The PTO also has its own hydraulic pump. It's its own separate system.

These tractors only have a 17GPM pump so you're not going to have the loader flying up and down at breakneck speed like a little Kubota, especially if the loader has large cylinders. You could pound posts with those little Kubotas as fast as their loaders go up and down.

Depending on the loader it may not have the right geometry and leverage to lift the front end of your tractor.

The relief valve popping off at full extension or retraction of the loader boom or bucket is normal. That means your pump is putting out whatever pressure your relief valve is set to.

Ideally you should flow rate and pressure test the hydraulic remote outlets where you attached your loader to see if there is anything wrong.

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29 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

First off, brakes, TA and power steering are on a different pump from main hydraulics, so the fact that they work does not reflect anything.

The PTO also has its own hydraulic pump. It's its own separate system.

These tractors only have a 17GPM pump so you're not going to have the loader flying up and down at breakneck speed like a little Kubota, especially if the loader has large cylinders. You could pound posts with those little Kubotas as fast as their loaders go up and down.

Depending on the loader it may not have the right geometry and leverage to lift the front end of your tractor.

The relief valve popping off at full extension or retraction of the loader boom or bucket is normal. That means your pump is putting out whatever pressure your relief valve is set to.

Ideally you should flow rate and pressure test the hydraulic remote outlets where you attached your loader to see if there is anything wrong.

"These tractors only have a 17GPM pump so you're not going to have the loader flying up and down at breakneck speed like a little Kubota, especially if the loader has large cylinders. You could pound posts with those little Kubotas as fast as their loaders go up and down."

The old 12 GPM PTO pump moved the loader much faster and lifted front end up without hesitation, geometry on the loader is good. We have had the tractor/loader in the family since new in 1980.

"The relief valve popping off at full extension or retraction of the loader boom or bucket is normal. That means your pump is putting out whatever pressure your relief valve is set to.Ideally you should flow rate and pressure test the hydraulic remote outlets where you attached your loader to see if there is anything wrong."

That's what I'm after. Sorry to ask, but how do I do this? Pressure seems simple but flow-rate not so much. Or, is this all I can expect from the little pump in the 886? After checking the remotes what is the next place to check?

Not to bother you guys too much, but what sequential order do I go through here? I'm a HVAC/R tech by trade and understand there is a flow chart to follow here. What is that chart?

 

 

 

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Try to get hold of a flow meter and see how much flow you are getting at system rated pressure. (If you are achieving rated pressure) My 806 loader is slow. It has 12 Gpm pump but at 1800psi the flow drops to about 6gpm. Either an internal leak or worn pump. I’m surprised your loader is slow if you are getting the full 17 gallons.if the loader is that slow and weak it sounds like you have a major internal leak somewhere. 

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Flow raters are expensive tools that only make sense to own if you're a professional mechanic or you happen to be given one by a generous retired mechanic friend, or if you find one at an auction cheap because everyone else is asleep. You're likely going to have to hire a mechanic to come and flow rate your tractor.

What you can obtain relatively inexpensively is a high-pressure gauge, which is going to run you about $25, and a Pioneer connector, and maybe a couple of reducer fittings to go from 1/2" to 1/4". That'll give you half the picture, which is half more than you have now.

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A good flow tester is the first tool we grab on almost any transmission / hydraulic job. We use it to heat the oil to testing temps, monitor for circuit leakage, test system pressure and flow. Priceless tool here. When testing pumps I like to see them at or above 85% efficiency. Example 2500 psi X .85 = 2125, flow under no load is 15 gpm, 15 x .85 = 12.75. Now load system using flow rater to 2125 psi we should be at or above 12.75 gpm, this should be recorded at operating temperature of at least 120* with engine at pto speed. 

We do this test straight from the remote couplers first in most applications, then isolate to "pump only" as / if needed.  

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pressure won't move any thing with out flow it is possible to build pressure with out building much flow.

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7 minutes ago, R190 said:

pressure won't move any thing with out flow it is possible to build pressure with out building much flow.

That sure makes sense. I will start with pressure because I have the means to do so. Might have to get to flow later then.

Thanks,

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4 hours ago, messer9696 said:

Can I simply test the pressure at the remotes with a gauge and quick fitting or should I tee it into one of the loader lines?

Just plug it into the remote. The only thing teeing into a loader line would prove is if you've got a cylinder bypassing.

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It's a pretty safe bet that both pressure and flow are low. Al though you don't tell us what pressure pto pump operated at. Gauge in remote should reach rated pressure at idle. If you have to move throttle half way or more to reach rated. You definately have a problem. Thats all a flow rater tells you. Only it gives you numbers to tell you how bad it is. Important when discussing with customer. The 4 main causes are pump, mounting flange oring, action control valve and relief valve. Start by pulling top link cover. Action control will leak from hitch valve area. Relief valve will spray from top right rear corner. You should notice difference between valve on pressure or not. Reduced flow in that corner under pressure and not spraying anywhere else. Indicates pump or oring.

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7 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Just plug it into the remote. The only thing teeing into a loader line would prove is if you've got a cylinder bypassing.

I didn't see this until tonight. I had teed it in to check pressure. Which if you're wondering, the loader will need about 1400# to lift the back end of a New Holland skid steer. Heaviest thing I had quick access to. Which is interesting that it lifts okay but not as much power on down pressure. I'm thinking I just need to get used to the lower flow of the internal pump. Long story short, not positive there is a problem and if there is I can deal with what I have at this point.

Thanks for your help!

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10 hours ago, messer9696 said:

not as much power on down pressure

There won't be as much power on the retract cycle because there isn't as much surface area on that side of the piston for the fluid to act against.

1400 isn't great. Is the relief valve "relieving" at that pressure? You'll get whatever pressure the system is capable of if you connect direct to the port.

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Couldn't this 886 have a PPH system? Does it have flow controls below the hydraulic valves down close to the floor? 

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5 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Couldn't this 886 have a PPH system? Does it have flow controls below the hydraulic valves down close to the floor? 

No flow controls visible inside the cab. What is PPH? I'm really starting to think pressure/flow is okay and I just need to get use to the slow 12GPM pump.

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Pressure Priority Hydraulics.  That was a closed center, piston pump system that was used on the late 86 series tractors.  If it was a PPH system, that could explain your problem.  There are some o-rings that can blow in the valve stack that will limit pressure on the remotes even though the system is fine. Also, the flow controls could have been set to slow. But, if you don't see the flow control handles, I'm sure it's a gear pump. 

Check your pressure and let us know what you find.  Also, make sure the 3pt is up and not under load.  (You should be able to hear that.)

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30 minutes ago, striker782 said:

The PPH pump was not offered in the 886. 

And that is why I asked if it could have it.  I was thinking the 886 was not offered with PPH, but I was not for sure.  

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If you don't have access to a flow rater do it redneck style.

Make a hydraulic hose with that will hook up to an auxiliary remote and is open on the other end. Get a nice clean 5 gallon bucket (a yellow 303 bucket is ideal). Have a friend operate the tractor while you hold the hose over the bucket. Start the tractor and set the throttle near pto speed.  While watching your watch, must have a second hand, have your friend turn on the aux valve. Measure the time it takes to fill the bucket. 

Divide 30 by the fill time in seconds and you have gpm!

This is not perfect but it gives you an idea.

Thx-Ace 

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