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3 hours ago, snoshoe said:

Flooding the filter has nothing to do with it. It is the leak between pump and filter. By adding 10 gallon you buried the pump. Of coarse it pumps then. Probably very little if any of the oil is coming through the filter. It is entering through the leak that won't let the pump pull from filter. Please do not ruin tractor by cutting that hole. Pull the pump and reset seal and tube as explained earlier.

I have had the pumps and the tube out  twice. I will do it again, The tube does not appear to be out of place.

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Most everything has been covered here but just to chime in..    First off, if oil comes back through toward filter from the pump by over filling,  it certainly shows the suction tube between pump and

This subject went off the rails a long time ago.   Time to move on.    Worst than a political discussion. 

Here's a couple pics to help you visualize how its built. Granted this is on a 656 Hydro, but they are basically the same tractor.  There is no need to make fancy adapters and other things t

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7 minutes ago, stuart falkner said:






Screw you. I do not want your help or advice

I don't care if I help you either, but get your head out of your butt and listen to snoshoe. He seems patient enough to deal with you.

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1 hour ago, stuart falkner said:

I have had the pumps and the tube out  twice. I will do it again, The tube does not appear to be out of place.

Is the tube in the pump or the housing when you install?

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In your first post on this thread in the seventh sentence you told me what was wrong. The tube between pump and filter is leaking at one end or the other. As you've had it apart twice and didn't see anything wrong. I thought I should explain what happens. So you know what to look for.

Quite often when the pumps are removed. The tube will stay in the housing. If the pumps are installed with the tube in the housing. The tube will almost never enter the pump. When the pump is tightend in the tube is forced further through seal and into filter housing. This leaves a big leak between pump and tube. If pumps are removed again and tube is installed in pump without repositioning seal. Installin pumps will result in seal not entering counterbore in filter housing. This moves the leak to other end of tube. Between tube and filter housing. The seal needs to be moved toward filter end of tube. Then tube inserted in pump. The pump installed.

I'm sure that if this is done we can move on to sealing the auxillary valve

This was the problem when you started the original thread. So could be why you found it in fence row. Somebody else couldn't figure it out either.

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17 hours ago, snoshoe said:

In your first post on this thread in the seventh sentence you told me what was wrong. The tube between pump and filter is leaking at one end or the other. As you've had it apart twice and didn't see anything wrong. I thought I should explain what happens. So you know what to look for.

Quite often when the pumps are removed. The tube will stay in the housing. If the pumps are installed with the tube in the housing. The tube will almost never enter the pump. When the pump is tightend in the tube is forced further through seal and into filter housing. This leaves a big leak between pump and tube. If pumps are removed again and tube is installed in pump without repositioning seal. Installin pumps will result in seal not entering counterbore in filter housing. This moves the leak to other end of tube. Between tube and filter housing. The seal needs to be moved toward filter end of tube. Then tube inserted in pump. The pump installed.

I'm sure that if this is done we can move on to sealing the auxillary valve

This was the problem when you started the original thread. So could be why you found it in fence row. Somebody else couldn't figure it out either.

What you said could be what I did. It seems like I tried to put the pump back with the tube in it but had difficulty. There is some question of the placement of the o-ring also. I got the canopy off yesterday so now I am clear to pulling the lift housing off with my gantry crane. Then I can remove that suction tube to check it for a crack, I think that may be where the problem lies. Or rather my Main problem. If that suction tube under the lift top is cracked then that could explain the bad leak from the remote valve to the outside. It is running out the hole where you adjust the trip point of the valve. The lift system is vastly overfilled but I did this to make sure the system would work if I could get oil to the pumps. Also I could not move the tractor with no steering. Now I have it where I can  check it out. Stay tuned.

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Stuart...w/o reading back over the whole post....

make sure to drain the lift assembly before lifting it off.   It is a "reservoir" that holds a lot of oil.   Remove the seat, remove the cover plate under the seat, then remove the tall hex plug in the front left corner.   That will drain "some" of the oil.   to get the rest out you have to suction it out.    

My 666 was leaking out the orings around the 3pt adjustment lever tubes.   I had to do the above, and then diassemble the 3 pt ram and linkage to get those levers out.   It actually wasn't a big job, but you have to come in from the cover plate...removing the whole housing does not get you to those o-rings.   You may consider replacing those while you got it all drained and apart.

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17 hours ago, snoshoe said:

In your first post on this thread in the seventh sentence you told me what was wrong. The tube between pump and filter is leaking at one end or the other. As you've had it apart twice and didn't see anything wrong. I thought I should explain what happens. So you know what to look for.

Quite often when the pumps are removed. The tube will stay in the housing. If the pumps are installed with the tube in the housing. The tube will almost never enter the pump. When the pump is tightend in the tube is forced further through seal and into filter housing. This leaves a big leak between pump and tube. If pumps are removed again and tube is installed in pump without repositioning seal. Installin pumps will result in seal not entering counterbore in filter housing. This moves the leak to other end of tube. Between tube and filter housing. The seal needs to be moved toward filter end of tube. Then tube inserted in pump. The pump installed.

I'm sure that if this is done we can move on to sealing the auxillary valve

This was the problem when you started the original thread. So could be why you found it in fence row. Somebody else couldn't figure it out either.

You are probably right but the problem at the pump is one I created I think. I think the major problem is the suction tube under the lift top. We will see

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3 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Stuart...w/o reading back over the whole post....

make sure to drain the lift assembly before lifting it off.   It is a "reservoir" that holds a lot of oil.   Remove the seat, remove the cover plate under the seat, then remove the tall hex plug in the front left corner.   That will drain "some" of the oil.   to get the rest out you have to suction it out.    

My 666 was leaking out the orings around the 3pt adjustment lever tubes.   I had to do the above, and then diassemble the 3 pt ram and linkage to get those levers out.   It actually wasn't a big job, but you have to come in from the cover plate...removing the whole housing does not get you to those o-rings.   You may consider replacing those while you got it all drained and apart.

On the drain plug in the lift arm area, I drilled a leakoff hole in the plug itself to drop the oil level below the remote control shaft. The reason was a static leak from the remote lever when the tractor was parked. The lever shaft  was submerged in oil when the tractor was at rest. Getting it above the oil level stopped leak at rest. The hole-s I drilled are small and the oil level will come back up when the tractor is started.

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2 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

If that suction tube under the lift top is cracked then that could explain the bad leak from the remote valve to the outside

There is nothing under that cover that can cause that remote valve leak. That problem is in the valve it self. I would spend my time fixing a problem I know I have. Instead of looking for a problem I might have. Especially since the former is much easier. You might need to pull that cover anyway but I would try the other first.

Just saying

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OK, I think this is a confusion of "definition". 

Normally when someone says "remote", that is the hydraulic couplers that are on the back (or sometimes front) of the tractor, NOT the 3pt.   On the 686, if the "remotes" are leaking, thats gotta be from the valve body itself....the levers can't leak as they are not in oil (Or is the 686 completely different than my 666???).

 Stuart mentions the "remote control shaft" leaking.    The only "control shaft" I can think of that can leak is the 3pt controls, which exit near the bottom of the sump in the 3pt lift arm area.  I made the assumption that this is what he was meaning.    

So maybe clarify what exactly is leaking, or maybe I just need to go back and read the whole post again.

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At this point the leaks are a distraction to the stated problem of no hydraulic oil flow.  Remember that he has added an extra 10 gallons of oil to a housing that has a stated capacity of 16 gallons.  There should soon be oil leaking out of the top of the radiator!   As has been explained many times, the pump suction tube must be installed correctly to SUCK oil into the filter housing.  This should be fixed first and the correct amount of oil installed before we worry about oil leaks, etc.  End of rant.

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10 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

OK, I think this is a confusion of "definition". 

Normally when someone says "remote", that is the hydraulic couplers that are on the back (or sometimes front) of the tractor, NOT the 3pt.   On the 686, if the "remotes" are leaking, thats gotta be from the valve body itself....the levers can't leak as they are not in oil (Or is the 686 completely different than my 666???).

 Stuart mentions the "remote control shaft" leaking.    The only "control shaft" I can think of that can leak is the 3pt controls, which exit near the bottom of the sump in the 3pt lift arm area.  I made the assumption that this is what he was meaning.    

So maybe clarify what exactly is leaking, or maybe I just need to go back and read the whole post again.

I am sorry, it is the remote control valve itself that is leaking. Oil is coming from the rear of the valve. There is a can like cover with a hole in the rear end where you adjust the trip point of the valve. That is where the oil is coming from. I now think that is caused by a crack in the suction tube that carries leakoff from the valve back to the pump. I will be pulling the whole lift top off soon to get at this line. I think leakoff from the rear of the valve spool is a normal thing as there is no seal  on the rear to stop the oil. I think the suction  line has a crack and is sucking air instead of the leakby oil as it should. I will be investigating this very thing. The tractor is over full of oil now and leaking badly at this point  but it was leaking some from this point before I over filled it. I will post my findings later.

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12 hours ago, snoshoe said:

There is nothing under that cover that can cause that remote valve leak. That problem is in the valve it self. I would spend my time fixing a problem I know I have. Instead of looking for a problem I might have. Especially since the former is much easier. You might need to pull that cover anyway but I would try the other first.

Just saying

All spool valves have leakage. I can not do anything about that. There is a hole in the housing where the valve bolts up that i believe leads to the suction line. I have had this valve apart 3 times now and I believe this to be the case. The cover I am talking about is shaped like a can and is screwed on to the valve body

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This is amazing. 😂

Please do post your findings.

I'll be super interested to hear how the tube that carries the "leak off" oil from the remote valves to the suction tube is.  I hope you can find it since it doesn't exist. 

I am also surprised to hear that leakage from the spool valve is a normal thing and there is no seal to keep them from leaking.  I wonder what the o-rings were that I have changed out a hundred times do then?  Seems to me they always fixed the leak.  I guess I was just lucky. Maybe someone added them to every tractor in existence.  I guess us guys who work on tractors are just crazy.  We should have came to you to tell us how it all works, because you sir have "discovered" things I never knew about the 656/686! 

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So, one more time I will attempt to explain this to you, even though you seem not to listen to anyone.  

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

Oil is coming from the rear of the valve. There is a can like cover with a hole in the rear end where you adjust the trip point of the valve. That is where the oil is coming from. I now think that is caused by a crack in the suction tube that carries leakoff from the valve back to the pump.

Yes.  We all understand that oil is coming out of the back of the control valve for the remotes.  This happens.  There are o-rings inside the valve that have failed.  Believe us on this.  It is the truth.  There is NOT A TUBE that carries "leakoff" from the valve back to the pump.  It does not exist.  Do you hear me?  DOES NOT EXIST!  If you go looking for any such tube, you will not find it.  STOP LOOKING FOR IT.  Stop making up your own understanding of the working of this valve.  THERE IS NO TUBE.  

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

I will be pulling the whole lift top off soon to get at this line.

Since you say you are old and tired, let me save you a whole lot of work.  This line that you seem so convinced is bad is likely not.  Plus, I think you are looking for the wrong tube anyway.  Now, if you are just bored and want to take the tractor apart, just say so.  But I would assume someone so old and tired wouldn't want to do more work than is necessary.  So leave the top on and go after the pump tube.  It is far easier to get at.  Taking the top off the rear is a gigantic waste of time and energy.  LEAVE IT ON. 

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

I think leakoff from the rear of the valve spool is a normal thing as there is no seal  on the rear to stop the oil.

This statement is demonstrably false.  It is not normal for this valve to leak.  It would be a failure of the o-rings inside the valve assembly that would cause it to leak.  This may come as an absolute shock to you, but there is in fact "seals" inside it that keep it from leaking.  Any leak at the point you are seeing oil is NOT NORMAL and a failed o-ring is the cause.  You getting this???  It is a failed o-ring. 

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

I think the suction  line has a crack and is sucking air instead of the leakby oil as it should.

And what do you base this off of??  The fact that you can't get oil to go to the filter?  Have you fixed that seal on the pump to filter housing yet?  That is where the problem is.  A cracked suction line certainly is possible, but highly, highly unlikely.  I would be money that it isn't.  

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

I will be investigating this very thing.

Don't.  You are wasting your time and energy.  Listen up and we can save your old body a workout. 

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

The tractor is over full of oil now and leaking badly at this point  but it was leaking some from this point before I over filled it.

Any time you overfill a transmission, leaks are going to happen.  Stop blaming failed parts for your own ignorance. YOU over filled it.  YOU made it leak.  Drain the excess oil out NOW!

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

All spool valves have leakage. I can not do anything about that.

No, they do not.  Yes, you can do something about it.  FIX THEM.  But not now.  Get the pump to suck oil first. 

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

There is a hole in the housing where the valve bolts up that i believe leads to the suction line.

Yes there are holes in the housing.  Oil has to get to the valve and away from it.  The return oil does lead to the suction line, but that isn't the problem.  LISTEN UP!!  IT ISN'T THE PROBLEM! 

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

I have had this valve apart 3 times now and I believe this to be the case.

I don't care if you have had it apart 10 times.  You are WRONG. 

 

4 hours ago, stuart falkner said:

The cover I am talking about is shaped like a can and is screwed on to the valve body

We all know what you are talking about.  

 

 

Go fix the suction leak on the pump to filter housing.  Drain off the excess oil.  LISTEN and DO what we are instructing.  If you don't want to do that, then don't bother posting. 

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Just want to squeeze one comment in here before the flames start.  Believe it or not I have seen guys tap the hole in the back of the auxiliary valve where the tin plug goes in and run a drain hose back to the rear end housing. Not an approved fix by me either but apparently someone had some extra time and no money to fix it. Maybe that's what Stuart is finding. Pictures would be helpful. 

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There is not a leak down tube.. there are lubrication tubes that spray oil on the gears inside, and the return from the valves that go back down into the bottom of the rear end to avoid splashing the oil and making it foamy and full of air. The only was for oil to get to the pump is through the big tube that is banana shaped at the bottom of the rear end. That is the only way... Either you are sucking air at the tube between the pump and filter, or the big banana shaped tube that goes to the rear end, or at the filter cover where the gasket is. If you have all three of those air tight, then your pump will suck oil if it is in good shape. All of these external oil leaks that you can see on the outside of the tractor have nothing to do with your pump getting oil.

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1 hour ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

Just want to squeeze one comment in here before the flames start.  Believe it or not I have seen guys tap the hole in the back of the auxiliary valve where the tin plug goes in and run a drain hose back to the rear end housing. Not an approved fix by me either but apparently someone had some extra time and no money to fix it. Maybe that's what Stuart is finding. Pictures would be helpful. 

That could be, but that isn't going to make his pumps not get oil is what we are trying to say. He has bigger fish to fry before he gets to the valves and remotes. 

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This is great as I have been working on a similar problem on a 560, which seems to work but if you drive it around it slowly loses the power steering. I will only add that if you take the oil filter cover off and use a good flash light you can see if the tube with the seal is seated into the pump when the pump is mounted. You cannot see if the seal is in the counter bore from that side though which is where I also feel it could be sucking air. Also the seal is installed so the lip is pulled towards the filter if that has not been mentioned.

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