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i had long been thinking of putting a 4B in my M, its a frankentractor anyway with no particular sentimental significance. lately i have been wondering if i would be better off with another option, i have always admired the Wards tractors at pulls, they have a wide RPM range and a crap ton of HP from the inline 6 engines. chrysler 230 engines are a fan favorite of mine and are available-ish, and parts are easy. would be a simple matter to stretch frame rails and graft in a hood section. according to this chart it makes 205 or so ft/lb at 1600 rpm but max hp at 3600. questions are this, would the transmission hold up to such high RPM and what RPM is an M making 540 on the PTO, seems like if its best torque is at 1600 that is close to the M 540 RPM and would be ideal, and more fuel efficient. i do use the M for PTO duty on the wood splitter. 

P-30 (Straight Six), 1957
Taxable HP 25.4
Gross Brake Horsepower 132 @ 3,600
Torque 205 @ 1,600
Bore x Stroke 3.25 x 4 5/8
Compression 8:1 (120-150 psi, max variation between cylinders: 10 psi)
Cylinder numbering
from front of engine
1-2-3-4-5-6
Firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4
Connecting rod bearings Replaceable steel backed babbit, .0005 to .0015 inch clearance
Main bearings

Replaceable steel backed babbit, .0005 to .0015 inch clearance;
2.5 inch diameter (nominal)

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591 RPM pto speed no load at 1595 to 1600 RPM.  Probably work, think most M engines will put out more  torque than 205 but not sure what they are at flywheel as the engine  probably is that you want to use. 

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4 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

i had long been thinking of putting a 4B in my M, its a frankentractor anyway with no particular sentimental significance. lately i have been wondering if i would be better off with another option, i have always admired the Wards tractors at pulls, they have a wide RPM range and a crap ton of HP from the inline 6 engines. chrysler 230 engines are a fan favorite of mine and are available-ish, and parts are easy. would be a simple matter to stretch frame rails and graft in a hood section. according to this chart it makes 205 or so ft/lb at 1600 rpm but max hp at 3600. questions are this, would the transmission hold up to such high RPM and what RPM is an M making 540 on the PTO, seems like if its best torque is at 1600 that is close to the M 540 RPM and would be ideal, and more fuel efficient. i do use the M for PTO duty on the wood splitter. 

P-30 (Straight Six), 1957
Taxable HP 25.4
Gross Brake Horsepower 132 @ 3,600
Torque 205 @ 1,600
Bore x Stroke 3.25 x 4 5/8
Compression 8:1 (120-150 psi, max variation between cylinders: 10 psi)
Cylinder numbering
from front of engine
1-2-3-4-5-6
Firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4
Connecting rodbearings Replaceable steel backed babbit, .0005 to .0015 inch clearance
Main bearings

Replaceable steel backed babbit, .0005 to .0015 inch clearance;
2.5 inch diameter (nominal)

International Harvester put a 6 cylnder in a Farmall M and called it a 560.....and thats how the story grows

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4 hours ago, hillman said:

International Harvester put a 6 cylnder in a Farmall M and called it a 560.....and thats how the story grows

You make an excellent point there

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What’s available for oversized pistons and sleeves for a 560? Can you use an LP head on a gas tractor? 

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14 minutes ago, VacDaddyt said:

C-301 from an 806

Direct fit?

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I know a guy who did that swap, it looked more or less factory

 Farmall Doc was going to do one but I don't know if he got to it yet

 

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19 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Bell housing bolt pattern is the same from the M to the 560, so all you need is the rear engine adapter plate from a 560 and it will bolt right in.

Probably have to stretch the hood and or grill and it will look factory

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3 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

What’s available for oversized pistons and sleeves for a 560? Can you use an LP head on a gas tractor? 

you can on a 400/450 not sure about a 560 but wouldnt see why not 

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i got this wild idea the other day, my neighbor has an old IH pickup - its a 3/4 ton cant remember the details, its got a 221 6cyl in it. like the 460 i presume - wonder if a guy could slap a 301 in there or 291 - id take a pass on the 263/282 out of a 560. 

 

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Far as what an M can handle for HP,  guy that used to pull around our area, NW Illinois in the late '60's, early '70's, put a Ford GAA V-8 in his M. The GAA was a spin-off of Ford's 60 degree V-12 airplane engine Ford wanted to build for WW-2 fighter planes instead of building Allison or Rolls-Royce engines. The V-12 was 1650 cid, the V-8 was 1100, rated 500 hp @ 2600 and 1050 #/ft at 2200 rpm. The M was beautiful, painted white so it stood out, stretched hood, little wide front axle that looked like it was off a W-4. Whenever he seemed like he was running out of power he could still accelerate with instant wheel spin. Lots of guys pulled 3-4 classes back then, 5000, 7000, 9000, 12,000#, but I only saw him pull 5000 & 7000#. Think he had 24.5x32 rear tires last time I saw him. He would idle around the pits, the infield of the horse track. After a pull it would settle down to about a 500 rpm idle and he'd idle back into the infield.  The GAA was used in a WW-2 vintage tank,  I don't imagine there's any of them left,  the tractor pullers and off shore powerboat racers both grabbed them all up. The way Ford built the induction system they had some problems with getting equal mixture to all 8 cylinders, today's EFI would fix that.

I don't think there's any problem running lots of RPM thru an M rearend. An M engine was 1450 rpm full load, 1595 rpm was no load max rpm. PTO was 540 @ 1450. Been lots of M's with small block V-8's installed.

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10 hours ago, bitty said:

Probably have to stretch the hood and or grill and it will look factory

Yup. I'm just getting the OP back to a rolling chassis. Cosmetics are another issue entirely.

I think you can even use 560 frame rails instead of lengthening the M rails.

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7 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Far as what an M can handle for HP,  guy that used to pull around our area, NW Illinois in the late '60's, early '70's, put a Ford GAA V-8 in his M. The GAA was a spin-off of Ford's 60 degree V-12 airplane engine Ford wanted to build for WW-2 fighter planes instead of building Allison or Rolls-Royce engines. The V-12 was 1650 cid, the V-8 was 1100, rated 500 hp @ 2600 and 1050 #/ft at 2200 rpm. The M was beautiful, painted white so it stood out, stretched hood, little wide front axle that looked like it was off a W-4. Whenever he seemed like he was running out of power he could still accelerate with instant wheel spin. Lots of guys pulled 3-4 classes back then, 5000, 7000, 9000, 12,000#, but I only saw him pull 5000 & 7000#. Think he had 24.5x32 rear tires last time I saw him. He would idle around the pits, the infield of the horse track. After a pull it would settle down to about a 500 rpm idle and he'd idle back into the infield.  The GAA was used in a WW-2 vintage tank,  I don't imagine there's any of them left,  the tractor pullers and off shore powerboat racers both grabbed them all up. The way Ford built the induction system they had some problems with getting equal mixture to all 8 cylinders, today's EFI would fix that.

I don't think there's any problem running lots of RPM thru an M rearend. An M engine was 1450 rpm full load, 1595 rpm was no load max rpm. PTO was 540 @ 1450. Been lots of M's with small block V-8's installed.

my neighbor has one of the V12 flatheads in his 41 lincoln, its a junior version of it - not sure the power or anything but its a zephyr or something, pretty neat engine, very smooth

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