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The Covid 19 vaccine


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Granted our technology has increased but it hasn't made it foolproof. Was it you that explained the issues of lesser trained pilots misunderstanding computer issues on the 737 Max? Technology played a role in those issues amongst other things and again it saw more testing than this Vaccine will.

Problems can still happen regardless of our technological advances. Downplaying our concerns is not constructive.

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42 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Someone mentioned on this thread that he had a reaction.

It wasn't me that mentioned a reaction to the flu shot but i can tell you, it does happen.

My wife is a RN at the hospital ( changed hospitals recently so it changed) At least at her last job ( and I assume her current one too) she's required to get a flu shot. Ive known her 5 years. When she gets the shot just like clockwork she's going to feel like crap for 3 or 4 days after. Pretty much she tells me she got the shot so when the reaction begins ill know why I'm not getting much out of her except for laying around. It is what it is but im her to tell you it does happen.

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 I predict It will be required to have proof of vaccination in order to travel outside the U.S. 
I will be camped out on the sidewalk to be first in line when it’s available.

Yellow cards have been required for years to obtain a visa so the Covid stamp will go right next to My Malaria , Yellow fever ,Typhoid, Tetanus, Measles, Rubelle, Hep-C,  Diphtheria and Cholera that I already have . 
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I bet some of you guys with military back ground have had many more. 

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2 hours ago, 1466fan said:

No. Said it wasn't the flu but some other virus going around. That's what all the doctors around here seem to be famous for anyway. 

I love it! In other words, I don't know what it is, you'll probably live, take two aspirin and call me if it gets worse.?

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20 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

fyi - NO HUMAN vaccine has ever been given prior to 4yrs of study and testing with quantified results = but they are trying to do this one in a year Thats BRILLIANT!!! and yet using a process/type of vaccine, thats NEVER BEEN used before on anyone, so lets take it one more stupid step farther with no tangible study/results either. They dont even do that on animal vaccines - my sister works for https://www.boehringer-ingelheim.com and they test theirs for  3 or 4 yrs on animals if I remember right. 

I won’t loose one second of sleep over who wants or dosent want a vaccine for whatever it may be. 
 

The most disappointing thing about the whole deal is that with everything mankind has learned and been able to do in our lifetime that it takes three or four years to develop a remedy for A flu virus. 

we can send men into outer space, we have satellites orbiting the earth, we carry cell phones capable of wireless communication, we have weapons of mass destruction capable of ending life on the planet as we know it and hundreds of other astonishing achievements but The fact that we can’t come up with a vaccine in under four years is absolutely ridiculous

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1 hour ago, Reichow7120 said:

It wasn't me that mentioned a reaction to the flu shot but i can tell you, it does happen.

My wife is a RN at the hospital ( changed hospitals recently so it changed) At least at her last job ( and I assume her current one too) she's required to get a flu shot. Ive known her 5 years. When she gets the shot just like clockwork she's going to feel like crap for 3 or 4 days after. Pretty much she tells me she got the shot so when the reaction begins ill know why I'm not getting much out of her except for laying around. It is what it is but im her to tell you it does happen.

Oh I believe it. My wife just got a tetanus shot and felt off for a day. Of course the flip side is that a day or three of feeling less than 100% is better than the alternative such as tetanus or the flu.

I had to get some shot for Africa maybe 20 years ago, so long ago that I don't remember what crud it was for. Anyway shoulder hurt for several days, but was better than whatever crud I could have gotten.

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2 minutes ago, lorenzo said:

I won’t loose one second of sleep over who wants or dosent want a vaccine for whatever it may be. 
 

The most disappointing thing about the whole deal is that with everything mankind has learned and been able to do in our lifetime that it takes three or four years to develop a remedy for A flu virus. 

we can send men into outer space, we have satellites orbiting the earth, we carry cell phones capable of wireless communication, we have weapons of mass destruction capable of ending life on the planet as we know itAnd hundreds of other astonishing achievements but The fact that wecan’t come up with a vaccine in under four years is absolutely ridiculous

With all the resources being thrown at this problem, actually billions of dollars, I think we'll see it sooner rather than later. There's too much at stake. Sadly Trump will get blamed for all of it and Joe may be our next president until he can't remember where the office is and Harris will step into the job. The only upside to that, and it's a tiny one, is that it won't be Warren.

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11 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Oh I believe it. My wife just got a tetanus shot and felt off for a day. Of course the flip side is that a day or three of feeling less than 100% is better than the alternative such as tetanus or the flu.

I had to get some shot for Africa maybe 20 years ago, so long ago that I don't remember what crud it was for. Anyway shoulder hurt for several days, but was better than whatever crud I could have gotten.

There is a relatively new pneumonia and shingles vaccination on the market today.  Both vaccinations require two (2) shots, the shingles six (6) months and the pneumonia twelve (12) months between inoculations.  I have previously had the shingles vaccination however I opted to receive both vaccinations.  I am not certain which arm received the respective vaccine however my right arm is quite sore, which for me is unusual. I also felt a bit out of out of balance for two (2) days.   I too annually receive my flu shot and from time to time have experienced repercussions.  Last January, I am not certain I did not have the COVID-19 virus as I had already had the flu shot and became pretty ill, thanks to my lovely better half.  Her illness was far more severe than mine, bed ridden for several days, fever, etc.

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30 minutes ago, New Englander said:

I love it! In other words, I don't know what it is, you'll probably live, take two aspirin and call me if it gets worse.?

That's been my experience around here with doctors. Refused to go for anything for years for this reason. Go for yearly check ups now. Don't know if I've ever had the flu before or not I guess. Never had anything that went for more than 4 or 5 days. Never more than a couple of those days that I didn't want to get up and go. 

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My concern is how he77 bent powers that be seem to want people to get this future vaccine. A study released a week or two ago showed that countries using hydroxychloroquine, zink, Z pack combo as early treatment have had a 79% lower death rate than countries that have shunned it. Almost 80%!

The HXC has safely been in use for 60 yrs, you have a far greater chance of dying from covid than suffering the possible side effects of HXC. Yet, this treatment has been run down, smeared, even banned in some places. Doctors have been threatened loss of license if they prescribe it..... Why? Just because a political nemesis touted it as a positive sign in the midst of a crisis? Or is it because it does work and the current crisis would become yesterday's news, thus making a vaccine a non factor?

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A pretty good analogy popped in my head on HXC. 

Say your barn is on fire, it's cooking pretty bad. Your local FD shows up first but they only have a couple tankers and a small pump truck.

So you run to the end of the driveway and send them back to the station so you can wait for the properly equipped big city FD to come put it out.

If that were to happen, might the insurance company maybe question your motives?

 

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5 hours ago, RichardDSalyer said:

thanks to my lovely better half

I know that one. My works in a school, private high school now so it's not as bad as when she worked in a public middle school. Those kids were major germ factories!

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3 hours ago, Cattech said:

countries using hydroxychloroquine, zink, Z pack combo as early treatment have had a 79% lower death rate than countries that have shunned it. Almost 80%!

I couldn't find that information anywhere so I'd like to see the source.

Having said that I did find this study by the Henry Ford Center that does have promising information that may bear that out. Their study of about 2500 is probably the best available  and is an actual controlled study unlike the ravings of America's Front line doctors group most of whom have nothing to do with front line efforts and only have anecdotes, not controlled studies.

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

They did administer very early on and carefully monitored the patients especially for heart issues.

I agree that because Trump advocated for it naturally the main stream press will pan it right or wrong.

It's NOT a cure! they still lost 13 out of a 100 but it's better than the 26 out of a hundred loss without treatment.

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6 hours ago, lorenzo said:

Yellow cards have been required for years to obtain a visa so the Covid stamp will go right next to My Malaria , Yellow fever ,Typhoid, Tetanus, Measles, Rubelle, Hep-C,  Diphtheria and Cholera that I already have . 

Yeah, got a stack of passports full of visas and a stack of those yellow cards too. I've only had a couple of reactions, only shoulder pain for a short time.

You have to do the Malaria prophylaxis over and over because it's caused by a parasite, not a virus, which makes an actual vaccine difficult to come up with.

We try to stay in the big cities, not out in the bush as you usually don't need as many immunizations. My kid went to the Dominican Republic for spring break and the CG shot him up with everything even though they were just staying at the beach.

I agree that a Covid stamp will be a must, so I'll probably be on the early list.

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3 hours ago, New Englander said:

I couldn't find that information anywhere so I'd like to see the source.

 

I can't find the exact one with the 79% in the title, it was 2-3 weeks ago, here is a link to a similar article.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-development-51-global-studies-find-hcq-effective-treating-covid-19-16-find-hcq-not-effective-10-late-treatment-studies/

 

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42 minutes ago, Cattech said:

I can't find the exact one with the 79% in the title, it was 2-3 weeks ago, here is a link to a similar article.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-development-51-global-studies-find-hcq-effective-treating-covid-19-16-find-hcq-not-effective-10-late-treatment-studies/

 

Sadly that site STATES that studies have provided 100% effective treatment when administered early which doesn't jibe with the controlled Ford study that is good, but not that good, so it doesn't pass the reasonableness test. It also doesn't quote the source of said studies.

That said I certainly wouldn't turn down the course of treatment should I test positive!

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12 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

Granted our technology has increased but it hasn't made it foolproof. Was it you that explained the issues of lesser trained pilots misunderstanding computer issues on the 737 Max? Technology played a role in those issues amongst other things and again it saw more testing than this Vaccine will.

Problems can still happen regardless of our technological advances. Downplaying our concerns is not constructive.

I disagree with you. My comment on third world pilots was more to the effect that they obtain their positions on who they know v any display of skill or knowledge. The technology wasn't in play as runaway trim systems reactions have been taught for years as there's always been that possibility. Those pilots just didn't grasp the issue. it didn't matter what was making the trim run, they should have simply disconnected it and hand flown the airplane. The trim disconnect switches are the same as those on early 737s and have always provided the same function. Boeing's reliance on a single sensor in their stability augmentation system is not without fault .

Here's the best layman's explanation, shockingly published in the NY Times magazine!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html

I don't mean to downplay concerns except when it involves some sort of conspiracy theory.

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8 hours ago, Cattech said:

A pretty good analogy popped in my head on HXC. 

Say your barn is on fire, it's cooking pretty bad. Your local FD shows up first but they only have a couple tankers and a small pump truck.

So you run to the end of the driveway and send them back to the station so you can wait for the properly equipped big city FD to come put it out.

If that were to happen, might the insurance company maybe question your motives?

 

Good analogy IMHO.

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1 hour ago, New Englander said:

I disagree with you. My comment on third world pilots was more to the effect that they obtain their positions on who they know v any display of skill or knowledge. The technology wasn't in play as runaway trim systems reactions have been taught for years as there's always been that possibility. Those pilots just didn't grasp the issue. it didn't matter what was making the trim run, they should have simply disconnected it and hand flown the airplane. The trim disconnect switches are the same as those on early 737s and have always provided the same function. Boeing's reliance on a single sensor in their stability augmentation system is not without fault .

Here's the best layman's explanation, shockingly published in the NY Times magazine!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html

I don't mean to downplay concerns except when it involves some sort of conspiracy theory 

Why do you keep placing my concerns on this being a rush job in with it being a conspiracy theory? Nothing has come from non existence to almost being pushed onto the population so fast. If it is technologically possible. Why haven't they eliminated AIDS, Herpes, etc? Why did it take almost 40 years to come up with a vaccine for Ebola which makes Covid look like a 3rd rate amateur in killing people. 

If I created a airplane from scratch ( mind you i know next to squat about designing aircraft) and had a working model in a year. Would you put your family on it? My gut says Covid got its start late last summer/last fall. The experts don't fully understand why it does what it does. But yet they can come up with a effective vaccine in a year or less? Understand our skepticism.?

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On 8/13/2020 at 5:46 PM, cjf711 said:

I hold that common sense and that the average person are NOT capable of making correct decisions on all types of issues.   The targets move, the problems are too complex to distill down to a single 1-3 page document of data to process.   There comes a point when the mechanic says,  listen, we need to do x,y,and z or you are going to have big problems down the road.  Do you trust your mechanic and do what he says, or get a second opinion?  do you trust that mechanic?  Would you have even gotten a second opinion if the first mechanic told you something that was in line with your "gut feeling"   When it comes to vaccines and long term medical effects I am wholly and totally unqualified to even begin to have an intelligent discussion on the merits or non merits of safety... I have to have faith that experts in that field can come to a consensus and then follow through on their guidance.   

But, Im also a member of the scientific community so,  I probably am bias in my trust for the sciences... Im willing to admit that my profession and workplace can be a cloud from others viewpoints from a different walk of life..  

I am not a member of the scientific community and am just an average person however I was capable of discerning the content of this complex document.  Inasmuch as I am just an average person I did have to Google a few terms to assist me in my quest for knowledge.

Modeling the Onset of Symptoms of COVID-19

COVID-19 symptoms often appear in this order, study finds

Researchers at the University of Southern California say they've found that the symptoms of COVID-19 tend to appear in a specific order, a discovery that could help enable earlier detection and treatment for numerous patients.

"This is a good guide of sorts," Dr. Bob Lahita, a professor of medicine who is not affiliated with the study, told CBSN anchor Anne-Marie Green. "We can say safely, studying as they did, I think it was 55,000 patients from China, they looked at the data and looked at the symptoms and found that this order was pretty reproducible."

According to the study, published in the medical journal Frontier Public Health, the most likely order of symptoms is as follows: fever, then cough and muscle pain, followed by nausea and/or vomiting, and then diarrhea.

"Fever is number one, followed by cough, followed by aches and pains — and they do not all have to appear in sequence, they can appear together," Lahita said of the first grouping of symptoms. After that, he said, comes nausea and vomiting, followed by diarrhea. 

Not all patients experience the same set of symptoms. But the new findings help underscore how COVID-19 differs from other well-known illnesses. While fever and cough are also associated with a number of other diseases, like the flu, the study notes that it was the timing in which these symptoms appear, and the later gastrointestinal symptoms, that set this virus apart. 

In a press release about the study, USC scientist Peter Kuhn said that understanding the order of virus symptoms is useful during "overlapping cycles of illnesses" like the upcoming flu season.

"Doctors can determine what steps to take to care for the patient, and they may prevent the patient's condition from worsening," Kuhn said.

To discover the sequence, the USC researchers, led by doctoral candidate Joseph Larsen, examined medical records and other data on over 55,000 coronavirus cases in China collected over a nine-day span in February, along with a set of over 1,000 cases from December through January. They also compared their findings to data on 2,470 influenza cases in North America, Europe and the Southern Hemisphere from 1994 to 1998.

"It is important to have this information," Lahita said. "Besides the things that we all talk about like loss of smell and loss of taste, again — fever, cough, muscle aches, nausea, vomiting and then diarrhea are very good indicators of the fact that you may have COVID-19." 

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8 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

Why do you keep placing my concerns on this being a rush job in with it being a conspiracy theory?

Not directed at you but rather the guys who are saying that Bill Gates invented the virus, patented it, and will make billions on his vaccine where he'll inject a microchip to control your brain! Said conspiracies have been promulgated on this very site! More nonsense like that has been postulated on this forum as well and I rail against it.

I'm a little curious about your concerns. Do you think that an FDA approved vaccine will make people sick or grow some appendage they don't want or that it won't be effective and will give a false sense of security leading to more spread and sickness/death? I mean this sincerely. I really want to know why you're concerned and what your basis for that concern is.

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38 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Do you think that an FDA approved vaccine will make people sick or grow some appendage they don't want or that it won't be effective and will give a false sense of security leading to more spread and sickness/death? I mean this sincerely. I really want to know why you're concerned and what your basis for that concern is.

Whoa now, a vaccine to help my appendage?  I am all for that!

That said, I am a highly independent individual and do not wish to have Big Brother control any more of my life than is necessary.  I also will take the vaccine if and when it is available and you sir may well find yourself second in line.

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1 hour ago, New Englander said:

Not directed at you but rather the guys who are saying that Bill Gates invented the virus, patented it, and will make billions on his vaccine where he'll inject a microchip to control your brain! Said conspiracies have been promulgated on this very site! More nonsense like that has been postulated on this forum as well and I rail against it.

I have never placed any credence in the Bill Gates conspiracies and my only complaint with Mr. Gates is he does not throw any of his millions my way.  Shucks, he was a very fortunate man and a poor software developer. Windows has been fraught with issues since the beginning and is still today.  Were it not for the Office Suite, Microsoft may well have been facing an uphill battle due to the fragile nature of Windows.  How many times have you attempted to use your computer only to find it slowed down to a snails pace while it downloads the inevitable update to correct another discovered flaw.

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