Jump to content
diesel1206

difference between industrial and farm tractor

Recommended Posts

What the difference between industrial tractor like 2756 and 756 except color and grill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of times the industrial had short rear axles and a non adjustable front axle.  Otherwise, mechanically, nothing different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part was the dealer contract Industrial dealers had a different contract and product line than ag dealers and ce dealers. The basic set features that were standard equipment  could be different if it was a "2" version of a tractor the difference depended on the particular model of tractor generaly you could option out a tractor about the same thing ag or industrial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read where some of the industrial tractors used a unique pto shaft and speed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only one I am aware of is the cub as far as pto but the ag cub is the same. I have never run across that in any Ih industrial I have worked on or sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Injpumped said:

I've read where some of the industrial tractors used a unique pto shaft and speed. 

In an era when the 540 PTO was standard, I think a lot of the industrial tractors had only a 1000 RPM.  That's probably what was "odd" about it.  There are only 4 PTO shafts sizes, one of which was obsolete years and years ago. (The smaller 540 shaft.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, J-Mech said:

  There are only 4 PTO shafts sizes, one of which was obsolete years and years ago. (The smaller 540 shaft.)

Make that 5. There was also a larger version of the 540 shaft. Doesn't the cub shaft make 6?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, snoshoe said:

Make that 5. There was also a larger version of the 540 shaft. Doesn't the cub shaft make 6?

I forgot about the large 540.  Don't see it often at all. The Cub had the small 540... what was it, 1-1/8"? The Lo-Boy had an odd shaft, but it wasn't really a PTO.  It was more like a mower drive PTO. I wouldn't count the Lo-Boy as a tractor.  All the Cub tractors were really the predecessors of the modern day sub compacts. I wouldn't consider them a farm tractor.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if IH had many that did not have a PTO,but something to check out in other brands. I want to say there are some Ford industrial's that a PTO was not even a option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, J-Mech said:

I forgot about the large 540.  Don't see it often at all. The Cub had the small 540... what was it, 1-1/8"? The Lo-Boy had an odd shaft, but it wasn't really a PTO.  It was more like a mower drive PTO. I wouldn't count the Lo-Boy as a tractor.  All the Cub tractors were really the predecessors of the modern day sub compacts. I wouldn't consider them a farm tractor.  

I just read on another forum 3-4 days ago the G Deere had a 1-3/4" -6 spline 540 pto.  I know the early Farmall H and Deere B and several others had 1-1/8" -6 spline pto, we had sleeve adapters on both our H and B.  And the 1-3/8" 6 & 21 spline and the new Big 1-3/4" 21 spine seems to be the new standard.

The Cub Cadet gear drive pto was an oddball, ran 515 rpm BACKWARDS, and the shaft is small and a fine spline, I'll have to check a manual for specifics, the Hub City conversion gearbox to change direction and get 540 rpm and 1-3/8" 6 spline output are crazy expensive. Charlie Proctor had a couple but I think they were in his fire several years ago.

Editing to add dimensions of CC gear drive rear pto,  manual says it's a Ten Spline 15/16ths inch Involute spline, actual OD of shaft is .978"-.9785",  or about 47/48ths of an inch outside diameter.

My 982 has the optional rear PTO, but it has a splined bore, think it's the same size,  friend told me GROB SPLINE has a shaft that fits, guess it's an industrial equipment standard. He runs a roller sprayer pump with his 2072 with rear pto. CUB CADET did sell a 48 inch rototiller and a small bush hog mower that ran off that pto. Lots of garden tractors had a rear pto but there's no standardization.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, J-Mech said:

I forgot about the large 540.  Don't see it often at all. The Cub had the small 540... what was it, 1-1/8"? The Lo-Boy had an odd shaft, but it wasn't really a PTO.  It was more like a mower drive PTO. I wouldn't count the Lo-Boy as a tractor.  All the Cub tractors were really the predecessors of the modern day sub compacts. I wouldn't consider them a farm tractor.  

Actually the Cub has a 31/32" 10-spline PTO shaft that turns opposite of the 540, at engine speed.

I wouldn't consider it a "standard" because it was really only used on one model of tractor. Yes, yes, I know, technically FIVE models (OG Cub, Cub LoBoy, 154, 185, and 184) but these are really all variations of the same tractor, and all made by one company. The other PTO types are all SAE standards, adopted by the whole industry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

The Cub Cadet gear drive pto was an oddball, ran 515 rpm BACKWARDS, and the shaft is small and a fine spline, I'll have to check a manual for specifics, the Hub City conversion gearbox to change direction and get 540 rpm and 1-3/8" 6 spline output are crazy expensive. Charlie Proctor had a couple but I think they were in his fire several years ago.

Gentlemen, I have to admit even my Cub/Cub Cadet knowledge is slipping.  Getting older sucks.  That's why I keep more manuals and literature around now, lol.  This is correct.  Cub, Cub Cadet  and Lo-Boy''s did run a 10 spline PTO that runs in reverse.  But there is more info.  All 3 used the same shaft, but ran different speeds.  The F-Cub ran at 540.  The CC ran at 515, and the LB ran at I think it was 2000, but I would have to double check that to state exact.  There are actually two Hub City reversers.  One for an F-Cub and one for a CC.  The F-Cub was a 1:1 ratio and the CC box had a slight speed increase to achieve the 540 RPM.  Yes, both are rare, but good old Charlie Proctor is the one who raised the price on them to the astronomical prices you are thinking of.  Charlie is really good at raising the cost of things.  He has/had a huge Internet presence, and the means to make everyone think he was the only one who had access to rare parts.  I hate the man, and personally can't wait until his business no longer exists.  He is one of the reasons some CC parts got so expensive.  Now the Internet has allowed so many new people to join in the supply of parts, and we have seen the prices settle out a bit.  If you need parts, check out IH Cub Cadet Warehouse.  They aren't ass-holes, like Proctor and have more reasonable prices.  Back to the HC reverser, I've seen around 3 sell over the years for less than half what Charlie wanted for his.  The Cub Cadet geared one is super rare.  The F-Cub geared unit more common.  I'd hate to know how many ended up in salvage yards and got scrapped. 

Rear PTO parts for the CC and F-Cub are identical.  You can buy every piece brand new from Steiner (and others) with the exception of the upper transmission input shafts for the CC.  That is specific to the CC and is hard to source.  As of now, no one makes a replacement shaft.  I've wanted to convince Julian from Midwest Super Cub to build it, as he makes replacement standard upper shafts, but have yet to ask him to do so. 

3 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

Editing to add dimensions of CC gear drive rear pto,  manual says it's a Ten Spline 15/16ths inch Involute spline, actual OD of shaft is .978"-.9785",  or about 47/48ths of an inch outside diameter.

This is correct.  Right from the book. Part of the reason I forgot was some of the rear PTO's I have, have adapters to 6 spline 540 on them.  It's all I could picture when I was thinking about it.  

3 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Actually the Cub has a 31/32" 10-spline PTO shaft that turns opposite of the 540, at engine speed.

I wouldn't consider it a "standard" because it was really only used on one model of tractor. Yes, yes, I know, technically FIVE models (OG Cub, Cub LoBoy, 154, 185, and 184) but these are really all variations of the same tractor, and all made by one company. The other PTO types are all SAE standards, adopted by the whole industry.

No it is 15/16" Matt.  Doc was right.  But I do totally agree that it should be left out of the discussion because it applies only to specific tractors and no other brands.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All the Cubs are 2000 rpm CCW rotation looking from the back end

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bitty said:

All the Cubs are 2000 rpm CCW rotation looking from the back end

You are correct.  They were driven off the engine directly, where the CC had a reduction drive.  So the Hub City reverse for the F-Cub would have been like 2.5:1 and the CC version closer to 1:1.  Man, I'm slipping on this stuff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I started this I'm sorry. The op wanted to know what was different on an industrial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, yellowrosefarm said:

Some industrials had no PTO at all and many had no 3 point hitch.

Several of the IH loader backhoe models were that way.  The loader and backhoe were basically part of the machine and not designed to be removed in normal use. I have never seen one of those in operation except for digging and back filling. A  3-point and PTO would just be in the way. Many people have told me that the 454/464/484 machines were just industrial models modded to be utilities. BTW the 1950's Cubs were absolutely ag machine intended for the small subsistence farm operation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, snoshoe said:

If I started this I'm sorry. The op wanted to know what was different on an industrial.

Wasn't you. It was injpumped suggesting that Industrials had a unique PTO.

Regardless, it was stimulating and productive conversation, and that's never a bad thing.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2656 has a loader.    The main difference is the hyd leavers are positioned for easy operation of the loader.  And it doesn't have rear remotes.    Has 3 point hitch, 540 pto , ant two peace drawbar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes,  but not always.....across the full IH line over the years....

Stub axles/fixed rear tread width

Heavy front axle

Fixed width front axle

Wide coverage fenders

Cast front wheels

Industrial tires

Fixed/swinging drawbar

Federal yellow paint

High speed reverse

Shuttle shift reverse

Heavy grill screen/plate

PTO delete

Or absolutely any combo of above (and more I'm forgetting)

IH would build you one almost any way you wanted, but as stated above had "packages" like industrial,  wheatland,  rice special,  tobacco special, etc....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2020 at 12:42 PM, Matt Kirsch said:

Wasn't you. It was injpumped suggesting that Industrials had a unique PTO.

Regardless, it was stimulating and productive conversation, and that's never a bad thing.

I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on lol!

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On and off topic

How in the heck did Farmall keep alllll these 1000s of options organized?  I mean you can find 6 656s and all thats the same is engine and trans.  The options list had to be huge in the 40 to 60s.  How did they justify inventory for all the diff options?  Just logistics of things like that fascinate me to no end.  IH dug the ore for the steel for all the castings for all the diff rims and wheel wts even.  Amazing how you can keep that supply chain organized.....esp with ledgers and pencils.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Injpumped said:

I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on lol!

Please don’t. I don’t think you have ever posted anything that wasn’t true.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if numbers were added up I bet the cub and 140 plus cub lowboy mower tractor were the most sold industrial tractors. Thousands of those tractors sold for road right of way maintenance and city street sweeping clearing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...