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ME 262 - start up through landing - good sound


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Yes but, I suspect the jet turbines themselves being used here are actually modern day transplants and not the original WW II era engines? Still pretty cool. 

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1 hour ago, Rick G. said:

Yes but, I suspect the jet turbines themselves being used here are actually modern day transplants and not the original WW II era engines? Still pretty cool. 

I'll bet you're right about that.  Pretty amazing plane still. 

I just finished a book called The Luftwaffe War Diaries.  Some interesting stuff in there on the 262's development and deployment.  Good for us that Hitler wanted it to be made in to a bomber.

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If Hitler would have used all the German technology available to him to its full potential....World War II would have been much more deadly(and longer) than what it actually was. The 262 is probably the best example of Hitler's misapplication of war tools at his disposal. With  mass production of these,  and with skilled pilots flying them as fighter aircraft, the Allied bombing effort would have come to a halt because of unsustainable bomber losses.

Look at how both US and Russian aircraft technology moved ahead greatly in the days after WWII using captured German technology...especially with swept-wing jet technology. The Mig-15(Russian) and F-86 Sabre(US) were bitter adversaries in the skies over Korea in the early 1950s; both were the benefactors of captured German technology.

Also...look at how both sides(US and Russian) used German rocket technology to great effect a few years later in the Space Race.

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My dad was a B-17 right-seater flying with the 100th BG at the end of the war.  He said he and everyone else were astonished to see how fast the 262's were in comparison to everything else in the skies.

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19 minutes ago, Atilathehun99 said:

My dad was a B-17 right-seater flying with the 100th BG at the end of the war.  He said he and everyone else were astonished to see how fast the 262's were in comparison to everything else in the skies.

The "bloody 100th". That bomb group suffered one of the highest loss rates in the US 8th Air Force during WWII. God bless your father and all of those young men who served. 

Still hard for me to fathom that the US 8th Air Force suffered more casualties than the entire US Marine Corps did in WWII...but when you factor in the loss of 10 men with every B-17 or B-24 that went down over Occupied Europe, it adds up quick.

May we never forget the valor of those men.

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Great video.  No doubt Germany was was at the forefront of some of this advance technology but I disagree that the Me 262 would have been a game changer.  The Allies had their jets too with the British Gloster Meteor actually seeing service the same year the Me 262 did.  Plus there was the British De Havilland Vampire and our P-80.  Both jets were just coming online during the last year of the war and few 80s did see some service.  No doubt if the Me 262 had posed a serious threat, we with our industrial capacity would have ramped up production and development to counter them.  The only way IMO Germany could have won is somehow develop the A bomb and place it in V2s.  

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54 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Great video.  No doubt Germany was was at the forefront of some of this advance technology but I disagree that the Me 262 would have been a game changer.  The Allies had their jets too with the British Gloster Meteor actually seeing service the same year the Me 262 did.  Plus there was the British De Havilland Vampire and our P-80.  Both jets were just coming online during the last year of the war and few 80s did see some service.  No doubt if the Me 262 had posed a serious threat, we with our industrial capacity would have ramped up production and development to counter them.  The only way IMO Germany could have won is somehow develop the A bomb and place it in V2s.  

Didn’t catch the entire episode but one of the cable channels had a story about atomic explosion in forest area of Germany in 1944. So Germany was close to building bomb also. They sent the technology to japan in the closing days of war in Europe 

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2 hours ago, SDman said:

If Hitler would have used all the German technology available to him to its full potential....World War II would have been much more deadly(and longer) than what it actually was. The 262 is probably the best example of Hitler's misapplication of war tools at his disposal. With  mass production of these,  and with skilled pilots flying them as fighter aircraft, the Allied bombing effort would have come to a halt because of unsustainable bomber losses.

Look at how both US and Russian aircraft technology moved ahead greatly in the days after WWII using captured German technology...especially with swept-wing jet technology. The Mig-15(Russian) and F-86 Sabre(US) were bitter adversaries in the skies over Korea in the early 1950s; both were the benefactors of captured German technology.

Also...look at how both sides(US and Russian) used German rocket technology to great effect a few years later in the Space Race.

True to an extent, but also a moot point.  Between the teething problems that everybody had with the first couple generations of jet engines, Germany's shortage of some of the necessary materials, and the attrition on the Eastern front there really isn't a scenario where the Luftwaffe could have put enough jets with enough well-trained pilots up to have shut down the bomber offensive.  

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

Didn’t catch the entire episode but one of the cable channels had a story about atomic explosion in forest area of Germany in 1944. So Germany was close to building bomb also. They sent the technology to japan in the closing days of war in Europe 

And I thought somewhere in Norway maybe they had a heavy water plant.  So yes they were on their way.  Also, if you really get down to it, the only area Germany had the complete upper hand far as wonder weapon technology was rockets.  Other then that, the Allies including the Soviet Union had an answer for everything else Germany fielded and in come cases Germany didn't have an answer at all, such as heavy bombers. 

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3 hours ago, Steve C. said:

I just finished a book called The Luftwaffe War Diaries.  Some interesting stuff in there on the 262's development and deployment.

Here's an accurate review:

"Like the title explains, this book offers commentary from various echelons in the German Air Force on the planning and production of fighters and bombers, the deployment and assignments, the policy, the conflicts and the strategic misuse of this vital branch of the military. As well, the author gives a great deal of background on the manufacturers, the competition for the new air speed record, the celebrated pilots who tested the new marvels, the hardships of restricted supply, the motives and explanations of the awarding of production contracts, and many more insights into the German Luftwaffe from its inception, and from the ground up. While a little too technical in naming every formation and an insistence on listing every make and model of plane for every sortie, this book has a lot of valuable information on the German military apparatus, specifically the air arm."

https://www.amazon.com/Luftwaffe-war-diaries-Cajus-Bekker/dp/B0007DN0CK/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Luftwaffe+war+diary&qid=1596386156&s=books&sr=1-2

 

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Don't think I made the comment that the outcome of WWII would have been much different....but GETTING to the same outcome of WWII could have been drastically different if the 262 was used to its full potential.

First off....by the time the 262 was available in great numbers....Germany was out of fuel to fly them. Many Allied fighter pilots shot down 262s just by following it back to its airbase because they were low on fuel. Also, if the Allies weren't worried about the 262, why was bombing 262 aircraft production centers considered high priority for the bomber crews? That's another reason why the 262 came on to the scene too little/too late to affect WWII's outcome....Germany had to disperse 262 production to different areas because of constant Allied bomber attacks. 

I would imagine MANY an Allied bomber crewman felt the same way that Tilla's Dad did when they first saw an ME-262 in the sky......."Holy cow....WTH was THAT!!!"

The US 8th Air Force lost enough men and machines due to fighting ME-109s and FW-190s....a few hundred ME-262 with good pilots would have made things much worse.

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1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

  Also, if you really get down to it, the only area Germany had the complete upper hand far as wonder weapon technology was rockets.  Other then that, the Allies including the Soviet Union had an answer for everything else Germany fielded and in come cases Germany didn't have an answer at all, such as heavy bombers. 

Ummm...if that was the case, then why did the US/Russia/Great Britain seek out so much German technology in the days shortly after WWII? The Allies had VERY little info on swept-wing aircraft technology to go along with the new jet engine technology. The Germans did. Why did virtually all new jet fighter designs after WWII employ swept wings?

Face it, without German technology, the US would have been at a HUGE disadvantage in the Korean War against Russia's Mig-15. The P-80/F-80 was used initially in the Korean War...but was quickly removed as it didn't take long for the Americans to realize it was at a major disadvantage to its Russian counterpart....hence the major rush to get the F-86 to Korea.

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4 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

And I thought somewhere in Norway maybe they had a heavy water plant.

It was part of a hydro system.  Production and orders were well leaked/tracked.  First the plant blown up and then a big load went to the bottom of a lake.  I don't think much got to Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_heavy_water_sabotage

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13 minutes ago, New Englander said:

I believe you'll find that's a replica:

 

Built from scratch based on original parts?

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1 minute ago, Steve C. said:

Built from scratch based on original parts?

From the original plans with all new parts and GE engines cleverly disguised. Since the originals were built in terrible conditions by mostly slave labor the replicas are superior machines.

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Just now, New Englander said:

From the original plans with all new parts and GE engines cleverly disguised. Since the originals were built in terrible conditions by mostly slave labor the replicas are superior machines.

Makes sense.  Really cool to watch.

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Any clue what it would cost?  I might be needing a hobby - not.  Just curious.

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10 minutes ago, Steve C. said:

Any clue what it would cost?  I might be needing a hobby - not.  Just curious.

If you have to ask..................

😁 Really, I have no idea but into multi millions likely.

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1 minute ago, New Englander said:

If you have to ask..................

😁 Really, I have no idea but into multi millions likely.

I'm sure it would have to be ton of money for sure.

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9 hours ago, SDman said:

Don't think I made the comment that the outcome of WWII would have been much different....but GETTING to the same outcome of WWII could have been drastically different if the 262 was used to its full potential.

First off....by the time the 262 was available in great numbers....Germany was out of fuel to fly them. Many Allied fighter pilots shot down 262s just by following it back to its airbase because they were low on fuel. Also, if the Allies weren't worried about the 262, why was bombing 262 aircraft production centers considered high priority for the bomber crews? That's another reason why the 262 came on to the scene too little/too late to affect WWII's outcome....Germany had to disperse 262 production to different areas because of constant Allied bomber attacks. 

I would imagine MANY an Allied bomber crewman felt the same way that Tilla's Dad did when they first saw an ME-262 in the sky......."Holy cow....WTH was THAT!!!"

The US 8th Air Force lost enough men and machines due to fighting ME-109s and FW-190s....a few hundred ME-262 with good pilots would have made things much worse.

SDman, we're more or less on the same page- I was just pointing out that these are only what-if scenarios because the logistics, manpower, and calendar for operating the 262 never really had a chance of meaningfully impacting the duration of the war.  The low point of the 8th AF daylight bombing campaign in autumn 1943 around the time of the disastrous Schweinfurt-Regensburg raids happened before enough Jumo engines had been produced to put a single squadron of jets in combat service, let alone hundreds.  And the lack of fuel, training, the fact that some of those early engines couldn't run 25 hours without servicing, none of that could have been very much altered by any decree from Hitler wanting a vengeance bomber instead of an interceptor.

Now, a what-if where it's September 1943, the engines are good, the fuel is plentiful, the guys with experience from Spain to the Battle of Britain to the Afrika Corps haven't been killed off, and there are 200 front-line combat capable jets?  Yeah, there might have been a window when they could have really had a turkey shoot.  But that's also the time when the USAAF had to do a major retreat from deep penetration raids anyway until they got a lot of new reinforcements and figured out how to get escort fighters far more range.  

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12 hours ago, SDman said:

Don't think I made the comment that the outcome of WWII would have been much different....but GETTING to the same outcome of WWII could have been drastically different if the 262 was used to its full potential.

First off....by the time the 262 was available in great numbers....Germany was out of fuel to fly them. Many Allied fighter pilots shot down 262s just by following it back to its airbase because they were low on fuel. Also, if the Allies weren't worried about the 262, why was bombing 262 aircraft production centers considered high priority for the bomber crews? That's another reason why the 262 came on to the scene too little/too late to affect WWII's outcome....Germany had to disperse 262 production to different areas because of constant Allied bomber attacks. 

I would imagine MANY an Allied bomber crewman felt the same way that Tilla's Dad did when they first saw an ME-262 in the sky......."Holy cow....WTH was THAT!!!"

The US 8th Air Force lost enough men and machines due to fighting ME-109s and FW-190s....a few hundred ME-262 with good pilots would have made things much worse.

was reading an article about a tailgunner , who during a mission, informed the skipper that a plane had flashed past his turrent and had no propellers ??

 

after they returned to base, tailgunner taken to somewhere quiet and peacefull , till the news broke about the german jet fighter

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