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Got a Situation with Trees/CRP

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If nothing else, black locust around here is highly prized for fence posts. :)

 

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17 minutes ago, rcb said:

If nothing else, black locust around here is highly prized for fence posts. :)

 

these will never see size big enough for that - most use hedge and cedar around here, there are tons of cedar but most dont want to mess with it, they just want to go to a sale or find them on CL because of all the thorn and how hard the trees are on chains. 

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I would think that a mulching head on a big tracked skid steer would be the way to go. Anything it can get into the head comes out in tiny pieces. Most around here have a 20 gallon tank to spray Tordon on pokey buggers. 
I watched a Terex eat a 20 inch Red Cedar in less time than I took to tell it. 

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5 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

I would think that a mulching head on a big tracked skid steer would be the way to go. Anything it can get into the head comes out in tiny pieces. Most around here have a 20 gallon tank to spray Tordon on pokey buggers. 
I watched a Terex eat a 20 inch Red Cedar in less time than I took to tell it. 

agreed a drum mulcher/fecon type will do it - we are talking 3 to 5 acre patches of black locusts 10 to 15 ft tall outside of the 5 to 7 of oak/maple/hickory/hedge that has grown up. The 20 acres of cedar will take a lot to deal with that is why these guys said trackhoe vs mulcher - they are both familiar with the mulcher units. I've never ran one but if you leave 12 inch stumps/root balls no one could EVER farm it again if it gets kicked out of CRP.  Those cedar roots/stumps/balls dont go away and im guessing would stop/break/ruin a lot of ag equipment. Trying to do the right thing here for the people also not just but a bandaid on it. 

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Just now, searcyfarms said:

lol well its a lil ways away and wont take care of the cedars - be a long drive here and doubtful it has AC 

I’m not too busy! We could load it on the Mack, maybe I’d be there by fall 🤞😂

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2 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

hey Mule, yes i have seen the fecon cutters they do a good job but need a BIG machine to run them to be efficient and of course, then there is the non breakable glass needed as well. 

I havent found anyone around here yet to rent a fecon head - plenty will rent SS - the guy that has the VAIL cutter/mulcher has a Kubota 95SVL-2 brand new high flow etc.....

i trust the guy with the Dozers/Track loader and the other guy with the CTL said the same thing regarding getting the BIG trees into piles to burn and not push stuff around and waste time/money 

regarding liability, there were no contracts signed, just an expectation of good faith - my buddy dropped the ball on it - i was brought in just in the past few mos, my buddy got remarried and has a new child at 54, 3 properties to care of his own/parents. 

and why do you think spraying/killing is crazy? you are going to end up with all of teh same thing over again if you dont kill it out first before cutting

you would have to mow it multiple times/yr to keep things like the thorny locusts and hedge  from growing back and since you cannot mow that with a tractor its going to get spendy real quick renting/paying someone to do that over and over on a CTL  

the owners live out of state and havent been to the property in 30+ yrs

 

I'm saying this guy would come in and do it , not rent one. Let him tear his ss up you dont want to put yours through that anyway. I think the helicopter thing is crazy because it will probably cost big money. Not because it's a bad idea. Sounds like in the end once its cleared off again it needs to be mowed 2 times a year. no idea how the crp works havent ever had any ground in it.  Just trying to offer ideas but sounds like your mind is made up. 

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2 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

I'm saying this guy would come in and do it , not rent one. Let him tear his ss up you dont want to put yours through that anyway. I think the helicopter thing is crazy because it will probably cost big money. Not because it's a bad idea. Sounds like in the end once its cleared off again it needs to be mowed 2 times a year. no idea how the crp works havent ever had any ground in it.  Just trying to offer ideas but sounds like your mind is made up. 

I know a air craine helecopetrr is right around 1000 a hour port to port

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13 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

I'm saying this guy would come in and do it , not rent one. Let him tear his ss up you dont want to put yours through that anyway. I think the helicopter thing is crazy because it will probably cost big money. Not because it's a bad idea. Sounds like in the end once its cleared off again it needs to be mowed 2 times a year. no idea how the crp works havent ever had any ground in it.  Just trying to offer ideas but sounds like your mind is made up. 

well im thinking if it needs mowed 2x per yr with a ss maybe killing would cut that back so have to see waht the cost diff is, i have a couple guys in the area that have cutter/mulchers and i found a place i can rent also and let my buddy work off some of his contribution. I dont know on the price of spraying with a heli, no one seems to have any idea here yet - what does crop dusting cost i wonder 

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Normally killing brush takes getting a fair amount of chemical on the brush. A plane will be putting on very few gallons per acre of total “spray” so you wont be getting real great coverage I wouldn’t think. Now, I’m far from an expert but I think aerial spraying would be less than ideal for what you have based on what I’ve read here. 

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They kill lots of trees around here with planes. Not sure what chemical they use but 2 years of spraying and they are even getting some Cedars killed. I can ask my neighbor if you want?

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I skipped most of the post.  Will try and go back to read them. So if it has been said forgive me.     But it sound Like you could go in with a 953 highlift and do it in about 20 hrs. 120/130 per hr.    3000. Burn the piles.  With the tooth bucket a good operator wouldn’t tear the ground up to much.  

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I follow a guy on YouTube who uses the FAE brand of heads. His business is clearing land in California. 

https://www.fae-group.com/us/products/land-clearing/excavator-mulcher-and-tillers-for-tracked-vehicles/skid-steers-mulchers

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How big are the cedar trees? Sounds to me like the perfect job for a drum mulcher on a big ctl. From what I've seen a 20 inch tree is no match for them. It does take longer if they have to grind the whole tree, so what we've done at work is go and cut the bigger trees out and leave the stumps. They can walk through a area of stumps like theres nothing there. 

I'm not sure how many acres it was but me and dad spent a few weeks last winter clearing sloughs and field edges. Was mostly 30 year old willows and poplar trees. My mustang ctl did all the grunt work and dad pushed everything into piles with the tractor and blade. I'd say we did 15 acres and that was a few hours a day after work and 2 full days on the weekends. Trees up to about 18" dont survive if they come in front of me lol. From what your describing if I was closer I would be there in a heartbeat if piling and burning the piles is a option. Then go with the tractor and mower after that. 

Around here the helicopters are very close to the same price per acre as the spray planes are I believe. I want to say somewhere around 10 bucks an acre that may not be right been a few years since we checked in to it. Chemical would be extra

Here's a few pics of what we did with just a ctl and 4wd with a blade. I should've taken some before shots but it is basically the exact same as what is still standing. I would've kept going but the ground was freezing and I was just shearing the trees off and then we would've had roots to deal with. Now I realize it's a whole different story trying to push stuff in summer compared to winter, but it is easier with bigger stuff when the ground is not froze since you can push roots and all. We ran a schulte mower over everything we pushed and plan on cutting hay on it this year if it dries up enough. Where there a will theres a way. Helps if you have the equipment too 😆

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Helicopters around here like db1486 said run around that 10$/acre. Might be a bit more if you’re brining one in from out of the area though. Guys that are doing that are travelling through and covering quite a few acres a day. 

It does sound like a bit of a worrisome situation. Anything you do that isn’t in writing and later down the road find out isn’t approved could come back to bite you. 

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So, 2 years left on the contract and then going to try and re-enroll?  According to CRP guidelines re-enrolled acres have to be cropable. That’s why they have to get the trees off. Couple things they should think about. May or may not be a CRP signup going on at a time that would get it back in with no lapse in time. Sometimes it’s a couple of years between signups. May be a chance original contract can be extended a year or two if they don’t have a signup. Other thing, unless the existing cover is the equivalent of a 50 point warm season grass/legume/forb mix probably not going to get back in the program.  So, you’re now looking at agreeing to re-establish the whole thing to 50 point mix. Should be able to chemically nuke it a couple of times and no-till it if the county has a no-till warm season grass drill. Few stumps left at ground level wouldn’t hurt much if you’re not going to do tillage. What county in MO is it located?

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3 hours ago, Ihfan4life said:

 

3 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

lol well its a lil ways away and wont take care of the cedars - be a long drive here and doubtful it has AC 

I have run that exact machine.  YES!  It does have air conditioning!!

As I first began to read about this scenario a Kershaw Klearway, or similar (Hydro-Ax etc), would be my go to tool.  I have found it to be effective on 5” diameter and smaller wood.  Anything larger I would recommend a dozer or excavator for.

It sounds like you would be able to go through with a forestry mower/mulcher to knock out the bulk of the trees and pick away at the rest.

 I think that you might call Down Under to Mike Newman and get him to “visit”.   Heck, get a couple of us together and we could knock it off in a weekend.  The diesel fuel bill and dinner bill might be a bit much though, to say nothing about mobilization............

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46 minutes ago, red2thebone sr said:

So, 2 years left on the contract and then going to try and re-enroll?  According to CRP guidelines re-enrolled acres have to be cropable. That’s why they have to get the trees off. Couple things they should think about. May or may not be a CRP signup going on at a time that would get it back in with no lapse in time. Sometimes it’s a couple of years between signups. May be a chance original contract can be extended a year or two if they don’t have a signup. Other thing, unless the existing cover is the equivalent of a 50 point warm season grass/legume/forb mix probably not going to get back in the program.  So, you’re now looking at agreeing to re-establish the whole thing to 50 point mix. Should be able to chemically nuke it a couple of times and no-till it if the county has a no-till warm season grass drill. Few stumps left at ground level wouldn’t hurt much if you’re not going to do tillage. What county in MO is it located?

well there you go man, spot on, yes you cannot leave the stumps because u cant drag tillage equipment thru that so YES it has to be tillable/cropable. Beans/Corn/Wheat etc....they are getting more stringent on inspections and sign ups. 

no question there are machines like Fecons and FAE units that will chew things up but then what ?  drop your tillage equipment and not get things done or tear things up. 

Yes its a roll of the dice on getting re-signed for the owners,  who knows what program will be available in two years. yes possible extensions,  FSA has done that recently with the lack of AG budget program signed by FEDs the last 2 or 3 yrs. Its a mix of grass, weeds, trees all right, all kinds of crap in it. A bunch of that invasive Korean Lespedeza too. 

That is what they guys that were bidding it were thinking by chemical burning, trackhoe on the cedars to get rid of stumps/root system and fill root ball holes best they could then cutting/mulching the other small enough stuff it would disk up and chisel it in the bad spots. The county does have a warm season drill for rent. Its in Daviess County NW MO. 

i like the drum mulcher idea presented here better too than the rotary mulcher seems they go faster and dont leave the stobs like the rotary do. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Lazy WP said:

They kill lots of trees around here with planes. Not sure what chemical they use but 2 years of spraying and they are even getting some Cedars killed. I can ask my neighbor if you want?

im thinking tordon would do the trick 

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3 hours ago, dannyredfan said:

I skipped most of the post.  Will try and go back to read them. So if it has been said forgive me.     But it sound Like you could go in with a 953 highlift and do it in about 20 hrs. 120/130 per hr.    3000. Burn the piles.  With the tooth bucket a good operator wouldn’t tear the ground up to much.  

the 953/963 track loaders woudl be fine on the big stuff but for some reason the guy that has the D6 units with High Tracks said it would quicker with his track hoe no clue why i havent dug or pushed trees with them before - my limit is in dirt grading and tearing a house down 

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1 hour ago, poor farmer/logger said:

Helicopters around here like db1486 said run around that 10$/acre. Might be a bit more if you’re bringing one in from out of the area though. Guys that are doing that are travelling through and covering quite a few acres a day. 

It does sound like a bit of a worrisome situation. Anything you do that isn’t in writing and later down the road find out isn’t approved could come back to bite you. 

wow thats way cheaper than i imagined, i talked to a couple places to chemical burn it but they said they cant drive their spray rigs thru it, woudl ahve to be done aerial and didnt think they could do it with a plane, waiting ot hear back on a quote, the guy at helena agri said they are overwhelmed spraying fungicides at the moment so it would be a month or so before they could even give me any good info. They are about 40 miles as the crow flies from the area. 

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2 hours ago, db1486 said:

How big are the cedar trees? Sounds to me like the perfect job for a drum mulcher on a big ctl. From what I've seen a 20 inch tree is no match for them. It does take longer if they have to grind the whole tree, so what we've done at work is go and cut the bigger trees out and leave the stumps. They can walk through a area of stumps like theres nothing there. 

I'm not sure how many acres it was but me and dad spent a few weeks last winter clearing sloughs and field edges. Was mostly 30 year old willows and poplar trees. My mustang ctl did all the grunt work and dad pushed everything into piles with the tractor and blade. I'd say we did 15 acres and that was a few hours a day after work and 2 full days on the weekends. Trees up to about 18" dont survive if they come in front of me lol. From what your describing if I was closer I would be there in a heartbeat if piling and burning the piles is a option. Then go with the tractor and mower after that. 

Around here the helicopters are very close to the same price per acre as the spray planes are I believe. I want to say somewhere around 10 bucks an acre that may not be right been a few years since we checked in to it. Chemical would be extra

Here's a few pics of what we did with just a ctl and 4wd with a blade. I should've taken some before shots but it is basically the exact same as what is still standing. I would've kept going but the ground was freezing and I was just shearing the trees off and then we would've had roots to deal with. Now I realize it's a whole different story trying to push stuff in summer compared to winter, but it is easier with bigger stuff when the ground is not froze since you can push roots and all. We ran a schulte mower over everything we pushed and plan on cutting hay on it this year if it dries up enough. Where there a will theres a way. Helps if you have the equipment too 😆

Snapchat-306087251.thumb.jpg.236f03b7ffa348cb5c81c65ba5c72d8f.jpg

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cedars are 10 to 15 inches thru/15 to 25 foot tall and pretty abundant - nothing that couldnt be mulched with the right machine but as discussed to be farmed/row cropped the stumps would be a problem - lots of ways to skin this cat that is why im rolling it around here to try to do the best for the people in this situation - thanks for all the replies guys some great ideas here 

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40 minutes ago, 1586 Jeff said:

 

I have run that exact machine.  YES!  It does have air conditioning!!

As I first began to read about this scenario a Kershaw Klearway, or similar (Hydro-Ax etc), would be my go to tool.  I have found it to be effective on 5” diameter and smaller wood.  Anything larger I would recommend a dozer or excavator for.

It sounds like you would be able to go through with a forestry mower/mulcher to knock out the bulk of the trees and pick away at the rest.

 I think that you might call Down Under to Mike Newman and get him to “visit”.   Heck, get a couple of us together and we could knock it off in a weekend.  The diesel fuel bill and dinner bill might be a bit much though, to say nothing about mobilization............

man wouldnt that be a site for us to roll in with a buncha stuff and whip it out, lol, probably couldnt keep up with the steak demand or beer runs - i think that kershaw would be awesome to run and much smoother than a CTL. Yes you are right on the majority could be handled with a forestry mower/mulcher that seems to be the plan but then maintaining after the fact to handle the regrowth and thorns are a menace. 

i woudl think that kershaw would be WAY less maintenance cost and tires would outlast tracks for sure - not to mention the speed of it vs a CTL unit. My only drawback with the forestry mowers is they leave stobs and I mean tire puncturing/ruining ones. The drums seems?  to cut at the surface where the mowers like the kershaw leave the perfect 2 to 4 inch stobs that are bent over and a lot of times sliced sharp. 

What do you guys think on teh mower vs drums? I have never been around a drum area and seen the leftovers up close 

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