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IPTO stuck on after rebuild


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Just rebuilt the IPTO in my 1486 with the HD Hy-capacity rebuild kit. Everything seemed to go smoothly until I started the tractor and the PTO was running in the off position. I left the linkage off and moved the control valve up and down to see if it wasn't adjusted properly with no change of the PTO speed. I made sure to leave some clearance in the clutch pack just like you would in a auto trans clutch drum. I changed all the seals and the brake pistons, I didn't change the seal rings on the drum( air tested fine) and didn't touch the IPTO control valve during the rebuild since it worked fine before the clutches burnt up on me.

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Not sure what you did exactly to cause your problem, but why, oh why would you not replace the seal rings on the drum?!? Those are two of the absolute most important rings to replace....

Travis

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It air tested fine so I didn’t bother with them. Since It looks like I’ll have to pull it back out I guess I’ll change them. I did change the piston seals though. 

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Did you air test it with the clutch discs installed?  How much clearance did you leave? 

I'm like Travis, I wouldn't tear a PTO down and not replace all the sealing rings, no matter how good it tested.  Too much labor to do it twice. 

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8 hours ago, Powerstroke_Tech said:

Just rebuilt the IPTO in my 1486 with the HD Hy-capacity rebuild kit. Everything seemed to go smoothly until I started the tractor and the PTO was running in the off position. I left the linkage off and moved the control valve up and down to see if it wasn't adjusted properly with no change of the PTO speed. I made sure to leave some clearance in the clutch pack just like you would in a auto trans clutch drum. I changed all the seals and the brake pistons, I didn't change the seal rings on the drum( air tested fine) and didn't touch the IPTO control valve during the rebuild since it worked fine before the clutches burnt up on me.

I would bet maybe one of the plates didn’t line up with splines and us binding. The sealing get hard if plates burn. If you used the Hd kit the plates fit right for a while.

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I air tested with the clutches installed there was enough clearance between the top plate and the snap ring. You could turn the input of the pto by Hand with some effort so I don’t think I have a spline binding. The drum had no heat discoloration the clutches just looked old and warn out.  

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Then, somehow, oil is getting past your valve. Is it getting pushed down all the way, or if the newer style, is it getting pulled all the way up? I'd put the gauges back on the port and see what you get for pressure when in the off position. If there is no binding on the packs, then there has to be oil getting past the valve to the piston. How did it reinstall? Easy, or difficult and run it home with an impact and the bolts? 

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I hand tightened them, and didn’t have any issues installing the bolts. I’ve ran into issues with aluminum valve bodys in automotive applications warping but I didn’t think it was likely with that chunk of metal. I took the plug off the bottom Of the valve body and retainer off the top with it installed to see if that role pin came loose but it was fine. I’m just not sure how fluid could get past that valve. Especially since it worked before.

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8 minutes ago, Powerstroke_Tech said:

I hand tightened them, and didn’t have any issues installing the bolts. I’ve ran into issues with aluminum valve bodys in automotive applications warping but I didn’t think it was likely with that chunk of metal. I took the plug off the bottom Of the valve body and retainer off the top with it installed to see if that role pin came loose but it was fine. I’m just not sure how fluid could get past that valve. Especially since it worked before.

There is no valve body on a PTO.  Only a valve in a cast iron bore.

My guess is you didn't get the input down in the clutches right, and tighted it up and it's bound, OR the brake is not working.  Did you put the brake together correctly?

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Let's start over, why was it torn apart to begin with?

 

Assuming, the PTO was running in the off position meaning it will run an implement with the PTO off. However, if it stays still and doesn't turn while hooked to a load, i.e. chopper, baler, etc, then I'd say that your brake pins are bad and have no friction left. How did they look when you took it apart? 

 

Second, if it was holding air in the off position, it has to be something bound up in the clutch packs, or the collar didn't get onto the pump drive correctly, and something very very major is broke, but highly doubtful.

 

Only ways the PTO is going to turn, one, oil getting past the valve to the piston. Two, the clutch basket is bound up on the disk, and three, the brakes are shot and not coming into contact with the drum. These are very simple ptos to work on, although they do have their quirks if you aren't careful. 

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I know for a fact the clutch disks aren’t in a bind because with effort you could turn the input by had and I had about .030 clearance at the snapping and all the plates could be moved by a screwdriver. The brakes hold because you can’t turn the pto by had with tractor off, and I tried turning the drum during assembly and it was not moveable. I’m guessing something is wrong with that spool vale. I called Hy-capacity they said check the pressures when moving the valve but had no idea since it sounded like I did everything right.

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1 hour ago, Powerstroke_Tech said:

I know for a fact the clutch disks aren’t in a bind because with effort you could turn the input by had and I had about .030 clearance at the snapping and all the plates could be moved by a screwdriver. The brakes hold because you can turn the pto by had with tractor off, and I tried turning the drum during assembly and it was not moveable. I’m guessing something is wrong with that spool vale. I called Hy-capacity they said check the pressures when moving the valve but had no idea since it sounded like I did everything right.

You will have to pull it out and look it over.

did you have valve out? Usually they won’t turn but there is a way too spring goes in right

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1 hour ago, Powerstroke_Tech said:

I know for a fact the clutch disks aren’t in a bind because with effort you could turn the input by had and I had about .030 clearance at the snapping and all the plates could be moved by a screwdriver. The brakes hold because you can turn the pto by had with tractor off, and I tried turning the drum during assembly and it was not moveable. I’m guessing something is wrong with that spool vale. I called Hy-capacity they said check the pressures when moving the valve but had no idea since it sounded like I did everything right.

I'm sure there is an editing problem here. Well more than one. You state the brakes are working. Your discription says they aren't. I havn'tt read yet which pto this is yet. Spring brake or hydraulic? My guess is that snapring that holds clutch drum to shaft isn't. Anywày I agree with Dale. Your going to have to pull it out to find and fix.

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First is it a PTO with spring applied brakes or hydraulic brakes. 

2nd. Is that .030 clarence with dry plates? That's too tight. You get oil in there and itll drag. 

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I'm guessing since you never mentioned what the pressures  were on your gauge on startup after rebuilding PTO ......you dont have  one on it.  

First step that needed done before start up was putting gauge on. That will give you the answer.

Your explanation of being able to turn pto by hand etc and not the drum etc ???

Editing issues??

Which style PTO is it??

 

806 belt pulley fitting is needed to get gauge rigged up....

20200731_102449.jpg

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You guys must run into this also. You take the HD 9/8 plate setup and it doesn’t fit into where the 12/5 plates were. They drag. I am positive the original heavy duty pto setups had a little groove cut in snap ring area for proper clearance. Seen one once can’t remember where.

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33 minutes ago, dale560 said:

You guys must run into this also. You take the HD 9/8 plate setup and it doesn’t fit into where the 12/5 plates were. They drag. I am positive the original heavy duty pto setups had a little groove cut in snap ring area for proper clearance. Seen one once can’t remember where.

Over the years and models they have been a number of "backing plates" that go right under snap ring. I too haven't paid close enough to tell ya which ones in which models. I always just make sure I have enough relief that (previously oiled) new plates aren't too tight. 

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1 hour ago, ole 815 said:

I'm guessing since you never mentioned what the pressures  were on your gauge on startup after rebuilding PTO ......you dont have  one on it.  

First step that needed done before start up was putting gauge on. That will give you the answer.

Your explanation of being able to turn pto by hand etc and not the drum etc ???

Editing issues??

Which style PTO is it??

 

806 belt pulley fitting is needed to get gauge rigged up....

20200731_102449.jpg

Just to humer you...

20200717_181600.jpg

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If it has spring applied brakes and you can turn the shaft by hand with the tractor off then you dont have any brakes left. Then it would turn all the time. 

 

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1 hour ago, ole 815 said:

806 belt pulley fitting is needed to get gauge rigged up....

20200731_102449.jpg

Or just a hose with the same o'ring end.  Or an adapter.  I have a hose made for them.  Works fine. 

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1 hour ago, CIHTECH said:

Over the years and models they have been a number of "backing plates" that go right under snap ring. I too haven't paid close enough to tell ya which ones in which models. I always just make sure I have enough relief that (previously oiled) new plates aren't too tight. 

The groove in the piston came at the same time the shaft with the wider snap ring groove and wider snap ring came along so the piston could lay down as low

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18 minutes ago, Powerstroke_Tech said:

 

Oops read your post wrong, nevermind, 

Take it apart, the suspense is killing us , we want to see what's wrong 😆

 

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