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d-407 valve adjust


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5 minutes ago, SDman said:

The Cursor 9L used in today's Magnums/combines/sprayers didn't evolve from the Cummins 8.3L used in the old Magnums. This is just one more example of CNH's confusion on their products.

The 8.3L CDC/Cummins engine originally used in the classic Magnums first evolved into the CAPS engines, which were available in both 8.3L and 9L(technically 8.9L, but Cummins/CNH both referred to the bigger CAPS engine as a 9L). After that, that engine evolved into the HPCR(High-Pressure Common rail...or some places in CaseIH refer to it as a "Pegasus" engine), again, in 8.3L and 9L sizes.

The FPT/Iveco/Cursor 9L(technically 8.7L) evolved from an earlier 7.8L Cursor engine that was called the Cursor 8. New Holland used that engine in some earlier CR combines, otherwise CNH didn't use the Cursor 8 in many applications.

Yes, any FPT/Iveco/CNH engine larger than a Cursor 8 has the 1-4-2-6-3-5 firing order....all the way up through the Cursor 16L offered in the 9250 combine.

Learn something new every day. I don’t keep up with the new stuff. So I always thought the engine in new row crop was still a improved on cdc engine

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Wow , I was gone on vacation and just got back , I see nothing has changed much , 60 comments on a simple valve adjustment , holy balls ūüė≥ J Mech your something , you must love to just ague with your s

This is the differences that some are referring to.

Well, I at least hope anyone who is seeking an answer here is able to sort through and find that answer, in the midst of the rest of the chest-beating

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47 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Then you get engines like John Deere with paired intake and you set different valves on 1 and 6. Classic example of valve set was 350 small block Chevy. Book said which valves to adjust on 1 and 6 but a quick short cut was to adjust valves with intake off when doing head work. You set 12 valves that lifters were down in bore then turned engine did the other 4. Then don’t forget to turn engine again to put dist in place on one or put it in on 6 without turning

I can't say I have ever had to set valves on a Deere but I remember looking at their chart and thinking "wow this seems odd" compared to the 400 series pattern I referenced. I knew the 361/407s were backwards and the Germans were different but couldnt ring them off without thinking like the 400 series. 

This has been a very interesting thread. Amazing how many different ways there are to do essentially the same thing. 

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3 minutes ago, Super A_sepa said:

I can't say I have ever had to set valves on a Deere but I remember looking at their chart and thinking "wow this seems odd" compared to the 400 series pattern I referenced. I knew the 361/407s were backwards and the Germans were different but couldnt ring them off without thinking like the 400 series. 

This has been a very interesting thread. Amazing how many different ways there are to do essentially the same thing. 

The best way is Pete’s way. Turn engine until exhaust valve is closing and intake just opens on companion cylinder.usually half way through firing order. Set the cylinder that is on its tdc position and rotate engine 120 do next one in firing order. Then another 120 another 120 another 120 and another 120. Setting valves on big trucks with unit injectors and Jake brakes can be a bit more challenging. Always remember when setting valves after engine work.set them fire up engine make sure everything oils and is good then reset valves after a little bit of run time just to make sure everything is right. My dad was of the old way setting valves on gas engines as they run but modern diesels area no no doing that.

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I think setting them one at a time is a waste of time.  If you get paid by the hour, or aren't punching a clock, I suppose it is fine.  It does guarantee that each valve is not on a ramp, I agree.  But I'll keep doing it the "fast" way.  (Especially if that is how the book says to do it.)  I've checked... setting was fine doing it that way.  Yes, I've done N14's, and ISB, ISX, Detroit 2 strokes, John Deere, and the list goes on and on.  There are exceptions to the general statement I made.  But that wasn't the topic at hand.  It was IH engines. 

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

Learn something new every day. I don’t keep up with the new stuff. So I always thought the engine in new row crop was still a improved on cdc engine

Cummins-based engines ended in CNH tractor production in the winter of 2010-11, when tractors had to start to meet Tier IVa emissions regulations. Combines and sprayers kept them for another year or so as they didn't have to meet Tier IVa specs. until 2012. Since then, we haven't used a Cummins-based engine in anything CNH produces.

 

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10 hours ago, J-Mech said:

I'm sorry I didn't put an asterisks with the exceptions.¬† There are ALWAYS exceptions.....ūüôĄ

 

"I" before "E"

......... except after "C"

............... or when sounding like "A" as in "neighbor" and "weigh"

 

And on weekends, and holidays, and only in May, and you're always wrong no matter what you say!!!!!

~Brian Regan

Hey, details are often the difference between a successful job, and varying degrees of failure.  It pays to do your homework beforehand and do some reading cause theres some weird stuff out there, and as SDMan gave an example, the European influence has upped the ante on that.  

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11 hours ago, dale560 said:

When you get into the 855 Cummins N14 there are about 5 different methods to adj valves. The best way as is Pete says to do companion cyl but that is a more skill needed. Best way to do it is as book says. 

I'm not much of a cummins guy but heard the stories such as yours.  Certainly an animal of their own.  

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24 minutes ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

I'm not much of a cummins guy but heard the stories such as yours.  Certainly an animal of their own.  

Once you have set them they really aren’t to bad. But Cummins used marks on the pulleys from the 50s and method of adjusting valves changed in the 80s yet a b c mark stayed the same. You set the valves on other cylinders according to engine ,injector type and what not. Most engines like a dt 466 can go long time between valve set but on a Cummins you want to set the injectors every couple years. They idle and start so much smoother when everything is right. Another engine that isn’t hard but have seen issues is a 3406e c15 cat stuff. Get over enthusiastic and set a injector a bit tight or on wrong spot  ,you will be overhauling engine when inj tip breaks off and trashes a piston.

P..S.  I am not a Cummins, Cat, Detroit or any type of engine guy. Just not bright enough to say no and can cause some major damage if you let me go.

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Did J-Mech decide that all 6 cylinders were the same or that the D361 and 407 were different because I 

am confused.

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5 minutes ago, JimG said:

Did J-Mech decide that all 6 cylinders were the same or that the D361 and 407 were different because I 

am confused.

They are the same.  

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7 minutes ago, JimG said:

So If I adjust my valves in the order that a d-466 shows I will adjust the right valves?

 

If you pay attention to intake and exhaust, YES.  If you just adjust by rocker number, NO.  You have to use your dang head.

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 So If I do not have the the short cut chart what order do I adjust. I understand that at no1 top dead center

that I adjust both the intake and exh on no 1 cylinder then what do I adjust on no's 2-3-4-5-6?

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17 minutes ago, JimG said:

Did J-Mech decide that all 6 cylinders were the same or that the D361 and 407 were different because I 

am confused.

He is still trying to pull his boot out of his mouth as usual................

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49 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

He is still trying to pull his boot out of his mouth as usual................

Nope.  No boot in my mouth.  I stand by my original statement.  Order to adjust is the same.  

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I do not understand what isn't soaking in here.....

361/407 book:

20200721_101137.thumb.jpg.42b50dc75a452c592a5dda5be3353e57.jpg

 

400 series book: 

20200721_101144.thumb.jpg.3ac7e84537b4b4386588b12e5f996de7.jpg

 

Chart I wrote to show they are the same:

20200721_101149.thumb.jpg.6edf092d8bfc31c40d4c23ef2361ce5f.jpg

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20 minutes ago, J-Mech said:

Nope.  No boot in my mouth.  I stand by my original statement.  Order to adjust is the same.  

Keep giving us pictures, making yourself feel good, tell everyone else how much experience you have, how dumb everyone else is and how great you are.....................Do you realize how much the majority of this forum laughs themselves to death with your antics??????  Please, Please, Please, keep it going!!!!!

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15 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

Keep giving us pictures, making yourself feel good, tell everyone else how much experience you have, how dumb everyone else is and how great you are.....................Do you realize how much the majority of this forum laughs themselves to death with your antics??????  Please, Please, Please, keep it going!!!!!

I think the chart shows it pretty clear.  If you and the others who are laughing don't understand what valves need adjusted when, maybe you shouldn't be trying to adjust them. It's not on me bud. Believe me.... there are guys on here who laugh at you too.  Some just realize that others will never get it, so they shake their head and move on. I have no problem continuing on no matter how hilarious you find it.  

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5 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

Please do!  Most of us here need a good laugh every day!

TP, you work on engines for money don't you?  Please tell me that you understand this concept.....  because if you don't,  I feel really bad for your customers.  This is engine basic info 101 man. I don't see what you are finding so funny.  Unless you do not understand the difference between intake and exhaust valves and where they are located. 

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If you want to set the valves on a 361, 407, 360, 414, 436, 466 and a huge long list of other engines... and you want to do it in only one revolution.  You are going to set the engine on #1 TDC and adjust the intake on 1, 2, 4.  The exhaust on 1, 3, 5.  Then turn the engine one revolution and set the intake on 3, 5, 6 and the exhaust on 2, 4, 6.  

Is there anyone here who disagrees with that statement??

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12 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

man im glad i have you guys to ask when/if i ever need to do this, it sounds complicated 

Still trying to figure it out mysef

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12 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Still trying to figure it out mysef

I might wing it on the 7.6 Deere torn apart here, but I learned it's the same as the 292 gas, and I think the dog only ate half of all the pages of the '69 Chiltons GM tech manual so we should be able to make something work.:lol:. 

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J-Mech your last post finally explained what your your trying to get across.

As we can not read your mind when you said all engines your the same but the pages 

showed different rockers to adjust us pure mortals that do not have the experience as

you did not understand your statement. The last explanation cleared it up but that explanation in your first post

would have made since also.

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