Gussoo 1 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Hi all, I have a 1967 TD15BG serial 21210 with the original DT361 engine. Injector tip number DLL145S261 pump DDGFC637-54AJ turbo Solar TC3B Ive dome a lot of work with this unit and to this unit including renewing both steering clutches, right side planetary bearings, fuel pump overhaul and renewing and calibrating the injector nozzles and rebuilding the starter motor. She’s a real top machine and punches way above her weight. I’ve been working alongside a D6 Cat and holding my own. Question I have is regarding the amount of smoke I have. I did remove the fuel pump after the flex drive coupling broke and had it overhauled at a reputable fuel injection shop. Reinstalled it and all was good except after idling for a 5-10 minute period it starts to hunt a little (this was the same before the pump was done). Give it some throttle and it runs smooth again and away we go. So when I was doing the planetary bearings I pulled the injectors and sent them out to the same fuel shop to be overhauled. The nozzles fitted are DLL145S261 or p/n 0433270074 which I believe is IH p/n 610715C91. The fuel shop couldn’t source new nozzles so cleaned up the old ones and I reinstalled them. Same problem as before re idle. So I pulled the injectors and sent them out to a different shop who managed to source 5 new nozzles (different stamp number on the nozzle to original) and cleaned up the best old nozzle. I reinstalled, same problem but in addition a heap of black smoke when pushing hard. I pulled the injectors again and sent them back, they were checked and sent to me, I put them in and same result. I am really searching for a set of reman injectors with the nozzle number or 6 new nozzles I have mentioned above. Searching globally for them seems to be like looking for rocking horse pooh. Anyone out there got any leads on a set of 6? I need them tested before being sent out. Seems a lot of these components have been sitting for years and the needles have seized in the nozzles as the assembly lube has gone solid. Especially a problem with NOS. Many thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Halsall 15 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Gussoo said: Hi all, I have a 1967 TD15BG serial 21210 with the original DT361 engine. Injector tip number DLL145S261 pump DDGFC637-54AJ turbo Solar TC3B Ive dome a lot of work with this unit and to this unit including renewing both steering clutches, right side planetary bearings, fuel pump overhaul and renewing and calibrating the injector nozzles and rebuilding the starter motor. She’s a real top machine and punches way above her weight. I’ve been working alongside a D6 Cat and holding my own. Question I have is regarding the amount of smoke I have. I did remove the fuel pump after the flex drive coupling broke and had it overhauled at a reputable fuel injection shop. Reinstalled it and all was good except after idling for a 5-10 minute period it starts to hunt a little (this was the same before the pump was done). Give it some throttle and it runs smooth again and away we go. So when I was doing the planetary bearings I pulled the injectors and sent them out to the same fuel shop to be overhauled. The nozzles fitted are DLL145S261 or p/n 0433270074 which I believe is IH p/n 610715C91. The fuel shop couldn’t source new nozzles so cleaned up the old ones and I reinstalled them. Same problem as before re idle. So I pulled the injectors and sent them out to a different shop who managed to source 5 new nozzles (different stamp number on the nozzle to original) and cleaned up the best old nozzle. I reinstalled, same problem but in addition a heap of black smoke when pushing hard. I pulled the injectors again and sent them back, they were checked and sent to me, I put them in and same result. I am really searching for a set of reman injectors with the nozzle number or 6 new nozzles I have mentioned above. Searching globally for them seems to be like looking for rocking horse pooh. Anyone out there got any leads on a set of 6? I need them tested before being sent out. Seems a lot of these components have been sitting for years and the needles have seized in the nozzles as the assembly lube has gone solid. Especially a problem with NOS. Many thanks Welcome! I'd put the above detailed questions to the very knowledgeable crew on the Construction Equipment Board of this website. That is the place to go find good information and hopefully spare parts for IH crawlers!😀 P.S. The DT-361 engine also used in the Farmall 1206 farm tractor, so it may be worth checking with a Case IH dealer as Case IH still keep parts for some of the classic Farmall tractors. Best of luck with the project, you seem to know what you are doing and are being hampered by lack of replacement parts!😃 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
806 man 851 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Are injecrors rotated off 180 degree? It can be done. which will cause excessive smoke. Besides a bad turbo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gussoo 1 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 I’m not about the 180 degree rotation of the nozzles as I wasn’t the person assembling them. The shop did have 2 goes a getting them right though and I can only assume that they worked well on the test bench. As re turbo does anyone know what the boost pressure should be? That’s the only way I know of to check the turbos performance. It does spin up and makes a nice whistle when under a load. I have checked it for axial end float/ play and all seems good. I regularly clean the air filters and check the turbo discharge hoses to the inlet manifold and all seems well. Do the 1206 run the same p/n for injector nozzles? Do the DT407, 455 etc run the same injectors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
806 man 851 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Gussoo said: I’m not about the 180 degree rotation of the nozzles as I wasn’t the person assembling them. The shop did have 2 goes a getting them right though and I can only assume that they worked well on the test bench. As re turbo does anyone know what the boost pressure should be? That’s the only way I know of to check the turbos performance. It does spin up and makes a nice whistle when under a load. I have checked it for axial end float/ play and all seems good. I regularly clean the air filters and check the turbo discharge hoses to the inlet manifold and all seems well. Do the 1206 run the same p/n for injector nozzles? Do the DT407, 455 etc run the same injectors? I'm asking about the install job of the injectors into the head. I know of 1026 that was rebuilt when finished it smoked real bad after several years the fix was rotate injectors 180 degrees. Boost with stock pump 9-12lbs i believe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iowaboy1965 2,528 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 After 5 or 10 min at idle dont a lot of em start to smoke? (Wet stacking?) And im confused why you keep blaming injectors after they have been to not 1 but 2 reputable shops? Did shops give you an indication that injectors still were not up to snuff? Maybe injpumped will chime in and clarify a few things for us. The hunting i would think would be a pump issue that can be cured by adjustment? Its been talked about before but i cant recall the fix or reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gussoo 1 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 Thing is I haven’t had all 6 injector nozzles replaced as only 5 new ones were available the 6th new one was no good for some reason so my best old one was reinstalled. In any case I’m not sure it isn’t the pump, however the pump was overhauled at the same work shop and installed on the marks where it was removed from with out the engine being turned. It could be an adjustment on the pump, the “smoke” ( torque) screw or the timing. I have adjusted the smoke screw without any success and I am always reluctant to cut the security wire on any pump adjuster screw when it has just come off the test bench and been all set up to factory specs. it could be the turbo boost pressure but without a spec for what that should be I can not check it. Seeing as the Solar turbos are not longer available and the replacement with another updated unit requires an exhaust manifold change ($$$) I don’t want to go down this path unless I know the turbo is not making full charge pressure. ill keep tinkering 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Injpumped 252 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Not sure where you're located, but the 074 nozzle hasn't been hard for me to get, but there's times when the old ones only need a good cleaning and put them back to work. I'm not too confident of your shop then. The pump torque screw has nothing to do with smoking at idle or light/no loads, that is timing, or the injectors are installed 180* wrong, remember the injector lines go over the returns. If inlet of injector isn't next to the valve cover, they are installed in the engine wrong. I do also question why you keep blaming the injectors, when shops let them go out the door 3 different times. When I run into this kind of issue, it's always a deeper mechanical problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gussoo 1 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 I’ve ordered the DT361 workshop manual. I have all other manuals including parts catalogues for the dozer except this one. It could be the injection timing. I’ll check that when I have the manual to refer to. I’m located in Australia and the only local source of parts is a great guy who brought all the army surplus stock in Australia. He doesn’t know much about these old machines especially at mine is a manual shift. my injectors are installed with the delivery line to the injectors facing away from the rocker cover. This was the original position they were installed in before I touched anything. I alway take photos before I remove any components so I know which way to reinstall them. Anyway I’m enjoying all the input from you guys. Sooner or later I’ll get it sorted out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nebraska1206 175 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 9 hours ago, Gussoo said: I’ve ordered the DT361 workshop manual. I have all other manuals including parts catalogues for the dozer except this one. It could be the injection timing. I’ll check that when I have the manual to refer to. I’m located in Australia and the only local source of parts is a great guy who brought all the army surplus stock in Australia. He doesn’t know much about these old machines especially at mine is a manual shift. my injectors are installed with the delivery line to the injectors facing away from the rocker cover. This was the original position they were installed in before I touched anything. I alway take photos before I remove any components so I know which way to reinstall them. Anyway I’m enjoying all the input from you guys. Sooner or later I’ll get it sorted out If you have a picture of the injectors in the engine, before you removed them, please post it, because the delivery line to the injectors is supposed to be towards the valve cover. DT361 & 407 valve covers have notches in the valve cover on the injector side, the inlet of the injectors needs to be towards the valve cover, hence the notches. I think your injectors may be installed backwards 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IHBRAD 6 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Do you have clean air filters? That is the first TD15B I’ve heard of that has a Solar turbo I’ve only seen them with a earlier setup or the later Schweitzer. Don’t get hung up a bunch on the black smoke. Those engines black smoked a lot in the tractors but even more so in the Dozers because all the stuff they are running in the Transmission like torque converter pumps etc. It takes more power hence more smoke the exceleration is noticeably slower in a dozer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Injpumped 252 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 if the injectors are installed as you say, they are wrong, and that is your problem. As Matt stated above, the rocker cover is even notched for them to clear. I've seen this many, many times.Always blame the pump or injectors, when it was an installation error from the beginning. This would be why it never changed anything, you got it with them in wrong lol! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DWF 54 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I bought a Galion Grader with a UD236 engine which was very hard starting. Went to take the glow plugs out and two of them had to have the injector lines removed to get the plugs out. I then figured that wasn't right so I posted my problem on this site. Turns out the injectors were all installed wrong, the glow plugs were on the bottom and should have been on top, 180 degrees off. It was like that for a long time as it had been painted by the P.O. and the injectors were painted too. It was an old repaint. It started much better after we got done with it. DWF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gussoo 1 Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 This picture is from the workshop manual showing the installed position of the injectors. Mine are installed in same so I am thinking not installed 180 degrees out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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