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IH 2544 with rod knocking


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Did you use a bore scope to find the problem or just pull the head? Always a nice feeling to know the problem has been found and you can move into the repair stage. 

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Hello all I'm new to the forum, and I have a new to me IH and I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction on a few things.  I recently bought a 2544 gas burner with the 3000 series loader out f

Uh not to butt in but who said the hydro was on it's way out? Maybe I missed something here. 

In the future, please post much longer videos.  7 seconds is for sure enough time to hear the noise, but anyone who is able to listen and identify what it may be or where it is coming from needs to li

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I used a borescope.  some buddies and I all listened to the knock with a stethoscope and agreed that cylinder 4 was the loudest location.  I ran a borescope into the spark plug holes on all cylinders and #4 showed some shiny pieces of something on the black piston tops.  That made me confident that pulling the head should be the next step to finding the issue.  A number of folks suggested the carb screw, but I would have never guessed I'd have gotten so lucky as to have it be something so simple.  There may end up being a bent valve, but that's easily fixable.

Even blind squirrels find a nut every once in a while.  😀

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Actually it is more common than most realize. Last time it happened to me was on a V-345 with a Holley. Do not recall the model Holley other than it was not a 2300. Apparently the screw made it out of the engine without damage and the clue there was an issue was it would not idle down. The plate had moved enough to start jamming in the bore. Of course it happened on a public road, loaded truck of wheat and rain storm coming. Have 2 trucks just alike so a quick trip back to the field and pulled the carb of the other truck and switched carbs and off to town it went. Had some old carbs around the shop so pulled a screw and Loctite to hold in place and all problems solve.  Your right once in a blue moon things go mostly correct. Glad you found it.

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Machine shop magnafluxed  the head, and its crack free.  I didn't really think it had been cracked but the faint amount of antifreeze I found when I pulled the valve cover had me wondering.  I was going to have the machine shop do a valve job while it was in there, but he said the exhaust valves are toast.  Fortunately he already ordered some new ones so the head should have some new valves and a tight fit by this time next week. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

well the radiator went into the shop to get resealed and cleaned.  It’s been there for almost a month now. They finally said it was done last week so I stopped in on Friday to pick it up. But my radiator wasn’t there. They had one with my name on it; but it’s definitely not mine. So now this mess is going to drag on even longer as they try to figure where it went. How long does it usually take for you guys to get a radiator back from the shop?  
 

There’s a good chance they won’t find it from what I can see of their operation (radiators are identified by scratch paper notes shoved into them). I’ve looked at finding a replacement, but everything I’ve found is a replacement for a 544/2544 gear drive rather than the Hydro. Since mine is a gasoline hydro, would a gear drive version even fit?

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On 8/15/2020 at 11:16 PM, 885 said:

Haven't seen that particular vw engine, but got a good Pic of a 6.7 Cummins at work. Mr piston and mister valve don't really like meeting each other. Part of the valve was stuck in the piston. Didn't get a Pic of the piston though. Gotta love the carnage photos

Back to the topic at hand, I have seen the strap on the bottom of a spark plug break off and do similar. It doesn't look like it hurt anything major at least from the photo. Good find. 

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I am surprised that the Aways Cummins group hasn't banned you from the internet for posting a failure photo of a Cummins 6B engine, and a 24 valve head at that!

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:07 PM, dirtwrangler said:

well the radiator went into the shop to get resealed and cleaned.  It’s been there for almost a month now. They finally said it was done last week so I stopped in on Friday to pick it up. But my radiator wasn’t there. They had one with my name on it; but it’s definitely not mine. So now this mess is going to drag on even longer as they try to figure where it went. How long does it usually take for you guys to get a radiator back from the shop?  
 

There’s a good chance they won’t find it from what I can see of their operation (radiators are identified by scratch paper notes shoved into them). I’ve looked at finding a replacement, but everything I’ve found is a replacement for a 544/2544 gear drive rather than the Hydro. Since mine is a gasoline hydro, would a gear drive version even fit?

I think a certain radiator shop owes you a radiator! I'd make them $hit one out. 

You can go look the part number up, but I don't think there is any difference in the gear drive and hydro radiators.  Might even use the same one for gas and diesel no bigger than that tractor is. 

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:07 PM, dirtwrangler said:

well the radiator went into the shop to get resealed and cleaned.  It’s been there for almost a month now. They finally said it was done last week so I stopped in on Friday to pick it up. But my radiator wasn’t there. They had one with my name on it; but it’s definitely not mine. So now this mess is going to drag on even longer as they try to figure where it went. How long does it usually take for you guys to get a radiator back from the shop?  
 

There’s a good chance they won’t find it from what I can see of their operation (radiators are identified by scratch paper notes shoved into them). I’ve looked at finding a replacement, but everything I’ve found is a replacement for a 544/2544 gear drive rather than the Hydro. Since mine is a gasoline hydro, would a gear drive version even fit?

Mine usually has them back in a week. Very good guys to deal with. I think it's a drive for you though.. St. Cloud, MN. 

 

And if it were me, they would be replacing mine, and I wouldn't spend anything on a new one. My shop will custom build one for any application. Had a cat d4d dozer that sent the fant through the rad, and they custom build a new core for it. 

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We finally got everything with the radiator resolved yesterday.  They finally ordered me a new radiator from Northern Radiator, and I paid them what I owed them from the initial work on the old radiator.  I got a new radiator for pretty cheap and they didn't have to completely eat the cost of the new one.  I'm definitely not taking any work to them, or recommending them to anyone in the future.  They somehow believe that their system of using a piece of scratch paper with the customers name and phone number, stuffed into the radiator is an adequate system to keep track of things.  

Clearly by my issues it is not.  I even tried to suggest a couple of ways that the could make tracking radiators more efficient, and they seemed to have little interest.  

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Maybe I’m having deja by?

Finally got the 2544 tractor running again this weekend after getting a lot of work done to the engine.  This is the same engine that used to have a really noticeable knock turned out to be choke butterfly screw in cylinder 4. The screw has been removed and the piston smoothed out again. The head has been magnafluxed; new exhaust valves and reground seats, the head was also flattened. 
Engine had 150 lbs of compression before all the head work. Haven’t checked it since. Also has 40 lbs of oil pressure.  
 

Am I just being paranoid?  Have a listen:


 

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Knocking sound seems to get better once it revs above 1200rpm. And then returns noticeably below that to low idle at 7-800. 
knock also is more noticeable when engine loads, going up a hill for instance. And then the knock goes away as the engine unloads going down the hill. 

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13 minutes ago, Jacka said:

Knock for sure,just don't hear it as much at higher rpm.wore wrist pin if you checked  crank and bearings I would say.

I think he has been there already, if you read back thru. What about the balancer drive gear?

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2 hours ago, CIHTECH said:

I think he has been there already, if you read back thru. What about the balancer drive gear?

Yes I know, read them as we went along but just still sounds like it.That screw if it ran in that head for awhile  I would be looking at that hole again. Like  I said I had stuff like that happen twice but I did not run tractor untill I figured it out.Just a idea to look at again. 

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4 hours ago, CIHTECH said:

I think he has been there already, if you read back thru. What about the balancer drive gear?

Balancer drive gear is still in place but the balancer has long ago been removed. 
I have wondered about the effects of not having the balancer though. When I plastigaged the front main bearing it was within tolerance but it did have a noticeable wear mark to one side. The wear mark is the front left side

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4 hours ago, Jacka said:

Knock for sure,just don't hear it as much at higher rpm.wore wrist pin if you checked  crank and bearings I would say.

When I pulled the screw out... I only removed the #4 piston as it was the one with the obvious damage.  Perhaps I should have pulled and inspected all of them when I had it apart.  I guess I was trying to avoid messing with any more stuff than was necessary, but since I had already checked the rod bearings on each piston it would not have been that big of an issue to pull and check the pistons.  20/20 hindsight. 

Sounds like i'm going to have to go take 5 steps back, after finally taking some steps forward.

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Wasn't the screw embedded in the piston? 

I think you're being paranoid.  You've had it all apart.  Run it. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So my curiosity or paranoia got the better of me and I tore the fine down again over the weekend to diagnose what the sound was. Everyone who said it’s just piston slap was correct. I couldn’t find any bearings, wrist pins, etc. that were suspect. So I put it back together and I’m moving on to the electrical. As with most tractors there are lots of previous wiring fixes that need to be sorted out. 
Specifically I have a question about the external regulator....  when the key is off... Should there be 12v in only the #3 wire on the external regulator harness?  

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On 10/8/2020 at 4:18 PM, dirtwrangler said:

Everyone who said it’s just piston slap was correct.

I'm doubting piston slap.  I think the motor is noisy due to the balance assembly, and spark knock. Unless you measured the pistons and cylinders and confirmed a very loose fit, I severely doubt piston slap.  On another note, I hope that it doesn't burn oil now as many times as you have taken it apart.  

On 10/8/2020 at 4:18 PM, dirtwrangler said:

Specifically I have a question about the external regulator....  when the key is off... Should there be 12v in only the #3 wire on the external regulator harness?

Should be voltage on the battery wire at the regulator.  I don't know what number wire #3 is.  Terminals should be marked. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I finally wised up and converted to a Delco 10SI internally regulated alternator. There are tons of resources online about how to wire a tractor for this system that I finally decided to eliminate the external voltage regulator. Glad I did because I’m finally back to charging at 14.6 volts and have working dash lights, warning lights, headlights and ammeter. 
Now that the tractor is running and charging as it should I took it out to do some bush hog mowing to test out its capabilities. It was excellent while running the mower as the hydro trans makes it great for working around tight spots. 
I wanted to test the strength of the loader and it turned out to be pretty good as I managed to uproot this cedar tree out of hard clay. E00EF16A-88F8-4ED4-85D3-B224931C632F.jpeg.03497355cfe535239181381aa8e304fa.jpeg
Unfortunately I also confirmed that I still have a hyd fluid leak. FB853077-45B4-4DB9-AC90-E6562457A144.jpeg.e5d9f95d5a5906ca97fb6acadc902474.jpeg
I recently replaced the hose seen at the front of this photo with a hose clamp. Someone had previously used heater hose to replace the 5/8” ID hose and I thought that it was a part of my ongoing problems with steering and hydraulic system noise.  I hoped the new nose would fix the leak but no dice. 
the big revelation though was that I was drastically low on hyd fluid. Which my instincts told me was the case based on the steering making lots of noise and cutting out often. Same with the hydraulics on the loader. Slow and groaning. I had checked the dipstick for the hyd fluid a couple of times before and it always looked good. 

Fortunately this time I finally read the instructions on the dipstick to let the machine run at 1200rpm in neutral for 3 min before checking the fluids. Now the hyd level was below the ADD mark and needs probably a couple of gallons of hyd fluid.  Which I didn’t have at the shop. So next chance I get to work on it, I’ll see if a couple of gallons of fluid makes a difference. It has to help. 

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Yes, the instructions on how to check fluid are printed on the dipstick.  Irony I suppose, lol. 

You sure that black hose is oil rated? Be sure it is. The leak is likely at a fitting.  Spray it with brake cleaner once it is leaking, blow it dry and see if you can find the leak. 

Hopefully there isn't any lasting damage from running it too low on fluid.  Hydro transmissions, and hydraulic systems need oil pretty bad to survive. 

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