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Replacement Inj Pump D358 IH826


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What other fuel injection pumps will fit on an Nuess D358 ?   

Didn't the 786 and 886 use the D358? What pump/s are on them?  

Any reason either of those pumps won't fit on an 826 with the D358?

 

 

Thanks for any input

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Yes the 786 and 886 use the d358 but the pump is slightly different. The lines come straight out the back on the 786. On the 826 they came out at a slight angle. Maybe the lines could be bent and make the newer pump work. The 786 also uses different injectors so you couldn`t just get lines from a 786. 

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From what I encountered on my 826, the drive hub is different as well. I had a DT358 out of a 520 Dresser loader that I bought for parts. It had the newer pump on it with the lines that came straight out. I can't remember exactly now, but it seems the pump gear had a bigger hole in it for that drive hub, and if I'm thinking incorrectly on that, I know for sure that the size of the taper inside the drive hub is totally different between the 2 pumps. I saved the pump, but not the pump gear. The drive hub I let a guy borrow for something and it came up missing, so now I have a pump I can't use either. All was ok though, I bought a good pump off a parts 826 that works great.

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8 hours ago, NHrediron said:

What other fuel injection pumps will fit on an Nuess D358 ?   

Didn't the 786 and 886 use the D358? What pump/s are on them?  

Any reason either of those pumps won't fit on an 826 with the D358?

 

 

Thanks for any input

The newer pumps on the 358 equipped 886 and 786 aren't exactly easy to come by either anymore.

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A lot of conversions have been done to replace the EPVA6/4 pump and none really worked.

This VE pump conversion is interesting.

The Robert Bosch pump uses a hydraulic governor and they really do their job well, until they break.

There is a lot of magic that goes on in that box. I hope the VE works as they are available.

Keep us up on this project andrewn269. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

If it works, someone needs to make a conversion kit.

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8 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

A lot of conversions have been done to replace the EPVA6/4 pump and none really worked.

This VE pump conversion is interesting.

The Robert Bosch pump uses a hydraulic governor and they really do their job well, until they break.

There is a lot of magic that goes on in that box. I hope the VE works as they are available.

Keep us up on this project andrewn269. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

If it works, someone needs to make a conversion kit.

Brad Twiss is a member here. He goes by @IHBRAD.

Edited by FarmallFan
Tagged Brad
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17 minutes ago, R190 said:

those Robert Bosch pumps really worked well till they broke then you were really broke.

That's what I like about them. You took care of them, they go a long time with no problems. Once they are broke, you have problems, but not before that.

Roosa Masters you can set your hourmeter about 5000 to 6000 hrs and be pretty much assured the E-ring is going to go, plug the return and you have to take it apart. 

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47 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

Can somebody tag in IH Brad. I'm interested in how it turned out. He did this a while back. I dont know how to do it. Seems pretty simple but he lost me on the timing part  

I just edited my earlier reply to tag him. Hopefully he will see it.

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The 826 I used to own had a CR series pump on it. It was on there when I bought it so don't know what was involved in the conversion. It had the injector lines coming straight out and the lines were like an 886 used. As far as  I remember it still had the crab mounted injectors. We ran the model number of the pump and the application was from an irrigation pump engine but still had a shutoff cable. One thing I remember is the "choke" which added fuel for cold starting by pulling the shutoff cable wassn't used in this series pump. Good luck. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry guys for missing the tag from BJ and yes I mounted a NOS CaseIH pump on my 706 German and it starts great and runs great. No issues at all. 

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On 7/2/2020 at 11:09 AM, andrewn269 said:

Little engineering required

452BFA5C-611E-48FF-8F8B-9A0D8865C08C.png

Interesting. Was going to suggest the ve pump.   With a little ingenuity I’m sure you could adapt most pumps. Some easier than others.   I have a CAV Minimec on my 806. Had to make an adapter and a new drive flange to mount the gear. Pipes were a bit of a headache as firing order on the pump I used was different to the d361. 
still working well after 5000 or so hours. 

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15 hours ago, IHBRAD said:

Sorry guys for missing the tag from BJ and yes I mounted a NOS CaseIH pump on my 706 German and it starts great and runs great. No issues at all. 

Any more pictures? Does it run the same or better? Were all intrigued 

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To begin with I am stating that I am no expert on the conversion from Bosch VA to VE pumps, I am just adding a few observations and thoughts as in the future my brother maybe looking for a replacement VA to VE pump. 
My brother has 5 tractors with German Neuss 4 cyl engines, 3 of the older ones have the VA pump and the newer CIH 495 and 3230 have a VE pump.
I know from European IH manuals that the Europeans had an IH 956 and 1056 model tractor that had a Neuss D-358 engine with a Bosch VE pump.
The VE pumps are recognizable by have the Throttle and Shut Off controls on top of the pump vs VA pumps are on the left side.
I know on the 3/4 cyl Neuss engines used on the 485, 585, 685 the change from VA to VE pumps happen in the later production 85 Series tractors and if you look at caseih.com parts for CIH 685 you will see the VE with only 2 mounting holes and VA pumps listed but of course with the new CIH parts site not all parts are listed and unfortunately you can not determine if the injector lines are the same or not. I know that the drive shaft size of VA pump is 17mm and the VE pump is 19mm so I believe if you could order the drive gear hub item #1 in the 685 parts diagram below that it would fit in the existing drive gear item #2 but unable to confirm this without access to the CIH part numbers, this should also be valid for the D-310 and D-358 engines with VA pumps. 
Maybe someone with access to the old CIH parts web site could confirm if the part numbers for the pump Drive gears item #2 between a VA pump and VE pump are the same and the same for the injector lines and the only difference is the Drive hub item #1, also check the D-310 and D-358 engines.
I know the Throttle and Shut Off cable and I believe the fuel inlet and overflow hoses/lines maybe different for the VE pump as well.

I did some googling and the results are posted in the photo below and there is a VE pump for a CIH D-358 Diesel engine with 2 bolt hole mounting listed on ebay currently and I have no affiliation to this vendor.


685 VE Pump link: https://www.mycnhistore.com/us/en/caseih/na/tractors/agricultural/under-100-hp/case-ih-diesel-tractor/fuel-system/fuel-injection-tubes-and-pump-gear/cn/D5402E54-8FBF-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6 

Link to D-239 with VA Pump: https://www.mycnhistore.com/us/en/caseih/na/engines/case/4-cyl/4-cylinder-diesel-engine/complete-machine/fuel-injection-pump-and-connections-674-tractors-574-tracs-with-synchromesh-gear-driven-trans/cn/B7AB2348-8FBF-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6

Hope someone can verify the CIH part numbers for the pump drive hub, drive gear and injector lines and detail the differences between VE and VA pumps.
Also hope this info is useful to someone that is looking for a VA to VE pump conversion.


 

Bosch VE Pump Description IH Manual.jpg

Bosch VE Pumps Where Used .jpg

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Nearest I can tell, by comparing part numbers, the drive gears are different as well as the pump drive hub from VA's to VE's.  Lines are different numbers too, but I can't confirm if that's just because of a difference in the way they are bent, or whatnot.

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The DT358 I bought from a Dresser 520 loader had a turbo and VE pump. I was trying to adapt it to my 826, but as was stated, I believe the drive gear and hub were different enough they couldn't be used in my 826, but I just can't remember for sure. It also seemed that the DT358 I had bought had the injectors placed differently, and had different sized nuts than the injectors on the 826 D358. The nuts on the lines that go to the pump were the same, just they were angled on one pump and not angled on the other. And, I'm sure the VE pump I have has only got a 2 bolt mounting flange just like the 826. Not having the correct gear wouldn't allow me to use the pump, but I did have it mounted on the 826, and had bent an extra set of factory 826 injector lines to fit the different angle on the back of the VE pump. I'm sure I've got that pump around here, I'll have to dig it out and take a picture of it.

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