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vtfireman85

JD hy-gard vs CIH Hytrans

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Any difference? I have 15 gallons of hytrans and use it in all the other stuff. Hate to retool just for the JD and if you use generic oil it needs the requirement of both oils. I’m not using generic, just saying they clearly have similar specs. 

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Guys run hy-guard in their red and claim no issue, so I don’t see why a Deere can’t use hytran?!

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28 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

Any difference? I have 15 gallons of hytrans and use it in all the other stuff. Hate to retool just for the JD and if you use generic oil it needs the requirement of both oils. I’m not using generic, just saying they clearly have similar specs. 

Won’t bother using hytran in a Deere.

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years ago using hytran in john deere tractors would cause the glue that held the brake material to the discs to loosen off and the brake material would flake off into the oil, usually customer would complain of brake material plugging the suction screen on the charge pump.have seen two local deere tractors do this. at least that is all i could see cause the problem.

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I seen deer clutch & brake linings come off using hy gard.  

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1 hour ago, dieselman said:

years ago using hytran in john deere tractors would cause the glue that held the brake material to the discs to loosen off and the brake material would flake off into the oil, usually customer would complain of brake material plugging the suction screen on the charge pump.have seen two local deere tractors do this. at least that is all i could see cause the problem.

The brake linings are riveted. Up until 50 series. Oil won’t bother brass or copper rivets. Clutch discs are glued just like ihc pto discs hytran won’t bother a jd . Much like hygard won’t bother a ihc tractor. It is common on a jd to have brake trouble after 20 years and it’s not fun riveting those. I always wanted a brake rivet machine

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Another oil thread

images.jpeg-2.jpg

  • Haha 5

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10 minutes ago, 1466fan said:

Another oil thread

images.jpeg-2.jpg

Yes, yes I do. 

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Hy-gard like the New Holland 134A is a multi weight and Hytran is a single weight. 

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Popcorn popping!

BTW, I use generic.

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20 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Popcorn popping!

BTW, I use generic.

I use synthetic in the bob corn popper. Isn’t margarine one molecule from plastic?

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4 minutes ago, dale560 said:

I use synthetic in the bob corn popper. Isn’t margarine one molecule from plastic?

Nothing but real butter in my house! Pop with canola but top with butter.

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6 minutes ago, dale560 said:

I use synthetic in the bob corn popper. Isn’t margarine one molecule from plastic?

Use coconut oil and stay, "GREEN".

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I don't know why you would want to run gold plated bucket red oil in a Deere when the OEM oil is cheaper?  I just got some Hy-Gard at the CE dealer and it was only $5 more a bucket than Napa's Premium Trans-draulic oil here.  I use hy-gard in everything of mine.  My brother though won't jump ship, still runs hy-tran.................He buys his at the former JI Case, then Case/IH, then finally Case CE dealer before that was pulled, so I assume they are now getting it from either Hoober's or Messick's and then jacking the price up again.  I don't remember the exact number, but it was completely nuts, if I was him I would switch but there are oil Nazi's everywhere, including my road.

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37 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

I don't know why you would want to run gold plated bucket red oil in a Deere when the OEM oil is cheaper?  I just got some Hy-Gard at the CE dealer and it was only $5 more a bucket than Napa's Premium Trans-draulic oil here.  I use hy-gard in everything of mine.  My brother though won't jump ship, still runs hy-tran.................He buys his at the former JI Case, then Case/IH, then finally Case CE dealer before that was pulled, so I assume they are now getting it from either Hoober's or Messick's and then jacking the price up again.  I don't remember the exact number, but it was completely nuts, if I was him I would switch but there are oil Nazi's everywhere, including my road.

Needed hose for tractor made and got a bucket of oil at cih 90 bucks. Hygard is 14 or so bulk at jd here. Just reading up on John Deere 10 series creation  after the buda Allis charmers thread.

john Deere started 10 series in development in late 1953 it began really in 1954. They were borrowing hydraulic systems designs used on aircraft. Why is this important? First a 4010 transmission is way more delicate , precisely machined than a m, 560, 806, 1066 and 86. Meaning surfaces on shafts are almost crankshaft smooth and tolerances much tighter. Any water in oil will seize a shaft. IHC didn’t design or request the what we call hytran until 1959 with the 560s eating bull gears and other problems. The high pressure additive in oil package was added and cured a lot of problems as been explained here before. This is 1959 or later when first 560 problems occurred. John Deere had the 10 series done by then  and any of the same high pressure oil failures would have occurred in their hydraulic pumps, wet brakes and tight transmission tolerance in testing.  I would almost gaurentee you the airplane industry knew about hyd oil problems already because they were years ahead in technology. JD probably just borrowed the oil from airplane systems or had oil companies create a good oil for new tractor. The JD 10 series and on up is just as sensitive to water in oil and thick oil. A ihc tractor up to 86s with gear pump hydraulic and sliding gears in transmission can tolerate more stiff oil than a jd can. And no hytran won’t delaminate your plates on a jd and hygard won’t delaminate a ihc pto or ta plate.

right after I typed this I dumped 5 gals of yellow bucket oil into 976 versatile. The airseeder lift cylinder start to leak after a couple years. This year I added about 15 gallons oil to hyd system this last week and half. The only thing hyd runs is steering and axial piston pump the same as a caseih 9000 series 4 wd. Got 10600 hours on hyd pump and about 1800 on yellow bucket oil so it works for some stuff. Pump runs fan on air seeder day in day out for 250 hours a year.

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2 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Needed hose for tractor made and got a bucket of oil at cih 90 bucks. Hygard is 14 or so bulk at jd here. Just reading up on John Deere 10 series creation  after the buda Allis charmers thread.

They were having a sale when I got this, slip is at the garage, but I seem to remember it worked out to just under 12 a gallon in 5 gal buckets.  Last time I got it, it was 12.50 or something close if memory is right.

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43 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

Use coconut oil and stay, "GREEN".

Peanut oil is the way to pop corn.   No butter needed.  

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Mineral airplane hydraulic oil is MIL H5606 and has been around since the '40s or perhaps late'30s. Although most airliners use Skydrol, a synthetic invented by Monsanto, due to being much less flammable, our planes don't have any hydraulics running through passenger compartments or any where else without fire detection/extinguishing and use it in all three 3000PSI hydraulic systems. It's very clean but an airplane hydraulic system is essentially sealed. The only way any dirt or moisture could get in would be through the filler barring a component failure. I don't know what its tolerance for water is.

MIL H5606 is red and has the feel of ATF and looks like it too because of the red dye.

Skydrol is purple and will dissolve a Snap-On screwdriver handle, remove paint, and hurt like heck if you get the tiniest drop in your eyes. Also hurts tender skin especially if spilled on your crotch!

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10 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Mineral airplane hydraulic oil is MIL H5606 and has been around since the '40s or perhaps late'30s. Although most airliners use Skydrol, a synthetic invented by Monsanto, due to being much less flammable, our planes don't have any hydraulics running through passenger compartments or any where else without fire detection/extinguishing and use it in all three 3000PSI hydraulic systems. It's very clean but an airplane hydraulic system is essentially sealed. The only way any dirt or moisture could get in would be through the filler barring a component failure. I don't know what its tolerance for water is.

MIL H5606 is red and has the feel of ATF and looks like it too because of the red dye.

Skydrol is purple and will dissolve a Snap-On screwdriver handle, remove paint, and hurt like heck if you get the tiniest drop in your eyes. Also hurts tender skin especially if spilled on your crotch!

Do you want to tell us how you know all that about the effects Skydrol?

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Just now, jingles1928 said:

Do you want to tell us how you know all that about the effects Skydrol?

Not me happily!

We had just got the first A300s in the country, maybe about 8 months in. One needed a rudder actuator changed and a mechanic began the process - way high in the tail, high enough that he had a step ladder on flat high lift truck to get in the compartment. He loosened all the hydraulic lines and began to spin them off by hand. Unfortunately he hadn't relieved the hydraulic reservoir head pressures and got hit all over his face and body from two 1" ports. Someone heard him screaming and 4 of us guided his feet down the ladder to the truck, lowered the truck and carried him into the shower. He could not see and was in agony. We toweled his hair and face off and gave him a bunch of coffee creamers for his eyes, (it was discovered that was the best eye wash). Turned the shower on to a good temp, handed him a bar of soap and wished him luck.

Poor B was hit everywhere and soaked. Under arms, crotch, and especially eyes were beat.

Early A300 books were in Franglish and difficult to understand without some knowledge of French. More than likely there was a warning somewhere but not everyone was trained in every area. I spent 3 weeks on flight controls alone! At that point I had HS French and French 1 in college but conversational, not technical, but was somewhat better at it than most. I wish I stayed with the language as I enjoyed it but other things were more important.

Everyone knew never to look up at an L1011 wing in the winter as they began to rain Skydrol in the cold. I was lucky and never had more than one eye disabled at a time.

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1 hour ago, New Englander said:

Mineral airplane hydraulic oil is MIL H5606 and has been around since the '40s or perhaps late'30s. Although most airliners use Skydrol, a synthetic invented by Monsanto, due to being much less flammable, our planes don't have any hydraulics running through passenger compartments or any where else without fire detection/extinguishing and use it in all three 3000PSI hydraulic systems. It's very clean but an airplane hydraulic system is essentially sealed. The only way any dirt or moisture could get in would be through the filler barring a component failure. I don't know what its tolerance for water is.

MIL H5606 is red and has the feel of ATF and looks like it too because of the red dye.

Skydrol is purple and will dissolve a Snap-On screwdriver handle, remove paint, and hurt like heck if you get the tiniest drop in your eyes. Also hurts tender skin especially if spilled on your crotch!

What do airplanes use for hydraulic pumps? In the 4010 design articles they say that JD borrowed the closed center hyd from airplanes. So I take it radical piston pumps? Or something like that.

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27 minutes ago, dale560 said:

What do airplanes use for hydraulic pumps? In the 4010 design articles they say that JD borrowed the closed center hyd from airplanes. So I take it radical piston pumps? Or something like that.

Yes, closed center systems. Very old or simple airplanes that just use hydraulics for operating the landing gear may have an open center system but for flight controls it has to be high pressure closed center with constant pressure, variable volume pumps. Our planes have 3 hydraulic systems, 5 engine driven pumps, and one electric pump plus a self contained backup system that has an electric pump and it's own reservoir that powers the flight spoilers only.

All of the primary flight controls are operated hydraulically with no mechanical connection rather controlled by 3 primary fly by wire computers backed up by 3 secondary computers. 1 computer and 1 hydraulic system/pump can fly the plane. Brakes and nose wheel steering are also by wire.

Anyone who has operated a closed center say,, backhoe compared with an open center can appreciate it the response of closed center. Of course it's all closed center now.

The Lockheed L1011 had 4 hydraulic systems. 4 engine driven pumps, 2 air turbine driven pumps, 2 electric pumps, 2 power transfer motor/pumps and a ram air pump that dropped from the belly. DC10 only three and you probably remember Sioux City where they wandered all over the sky when #2 engine blew and took out all 3 systems. Certification changes since then concerning routing hydraulics where one failure can take out all systems.

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12 minutes ago, New Englander said:

Yes, closed center systems. Very old or simple airplanes that just use hydraulics for operating the landing gear may have an open center system but for flight controls it has to be high pressure closed center with constant pressure, variable volume pumps. Our planes have 3 hydraulic systems, 5 engine driven pumps, and one electric pump plus a self contained backup system that has an electric pump and it's own reservoir that powers the flight spoilers only.

All of the primary flight controls are operated hydraulically with no mechanical connection rather controlled by 3 primary fly by wire computers backed up by 3 secondary computers. 1 computer and 1 hydraulic system/pump can fly the plane. Brakes and nose wheel steering are also by wire.

Anyone who has operated a closed center say,, backhoe compared with an open center can appreciate it the response of closed center. Of course it's all closed center now.

The Lockheed L1011 had 4 hydraulic systems. 4 engine driven pumps, 2 air turbine driven pumps, 2 electric pumps, 2 power transfer motor/pumps and a ram air pump that dropped from the belly. DC10 only three and you probably remember Sioux City where they wandered all over the sky when #2 engine blew and took out all 3 systems. Certification changes since then concerning routing hydraulics where one failure can take out all systems.

Watched that dc10 live as it was happening on tv. Those pilots were truly heroes. The turned the airplane by throttle on engines wasn’t it. They had no chance of landing yet they did and limited the loss of life by their actions.

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3 hours ago, New Englander said:

Popcorn popping!

BTW, I use generic.

Oil or popcorn? 

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3 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Watched that dc10 live as it was happening on tv. Those pilots were truly heroes. The turned the airplane by throttle on engines wasn’t it. They had no chance of landing yet they did and limited the loss of life by their actions.

They truly were. Horizontal stabilizer is hydraulic motors running a jackscrew on the DC 10 so they had not even secondary pitch control and the plane entered an oscillation . Our stabilizer is run by electric motors, one primary, one secondary and one backup. That will give pitch control with a total hydraulic loss and roll control is by the self contained system that runs the spoilers. It's a handful to control the plane but it can be done. Pitch with stabilizer with control on console and roll with your feet! Manufacture says only to keep plane under control until a higher control law - normal or alternate can be recovered but it's possible to land the plane with it.

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