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Faster starter for farmall 560 diesel?

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After replacing the starter on my 7.3 excursion, I was impressed with how much better it started with the faster starter. So it got me thinking about the 560. I know you could technically put a 6v starter for a faster start, if it didn't burn out. Is there another starter of the later tractors that might fight and are designed to spin faster?

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Interesting question, hopefully somebody knows something. I could use that on my 560 as well. 

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I dont know. But thought that 656 starter may have been mentioned before in other threads?

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I know a guy who had 2 560 diesels and I believe he used an 806 diesel starter. I have a 1466 and a 560 diesel split here and they both have 10 tooth drive gears. The 1466 starter is about an inch longer. The field coil housing may need to be rotated some where it attaches to the drive end housing or the steering shaft will hit. I'm not sure it will be any faster though. The only way to change the cranking speed is different starter drive diameter and then the teeth won't mesh the flywheel correctly. 

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My dad had a 460 diesel that was a hard starter. I put in two 12 volt batteries and a series/parallel switch so it would crank on 24 volts. Worked really well. You just briefly touched the starter button and it was running! Unfortunately if the drive didn’t fully engage the ring gear it would chew up the drive teeth. So I had to go back to 12 volt cranking 

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A original starter from a 706 diesel is a bit shorter will work. A longer o6 66 starter will work. 

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I was pretty sure an 806 starter would work, but I couldn't remember for sure.

 

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I know they have 2  6 volts from factory I believe if I remember correctly.But if you have one 12 put another 12 volt in to double cranking power and it will spin much faster.Also if your starter is rebulit correctly that helps immensely.I run 2 12 volts in several pieces of equipment that are hard starters,that HAVE to start in the cold no matter what and it is great.They spin much faster for longer and its all you need many times.I believe you could hook 2 12 group 31 batteries under the hoods on a 560.Been years since mine has been gone and had it for 30 years.But that's what I would try first.

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I put a starter on my 560d from a 1066 and boy did that make difference on starting     its a tight fit but worked out fine     didnt have to reclock it either

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Don't know what alternative starter you might want.

I got another concept:

Unwind the wire making up the windings in a starter, you will have little or no magnetic field. Connect that to batteries of correct voltage, the amperage will be outrageous! Wind it back up, magnetic impedance, or magnetic choke limits the amperage. 

 

Battery, through starter, back to battery is a series circuit. The physics of a series circuit is that there is 12 volts. Every point of resistance takes some voltage. A battery terminal connects to a battery, and a cable. Each terminal has at least two points of contact. resistance anywhere reduces voltage delivered to the starter. In the portion of the starter circuit we refer to as ground, we depend on the tractor components to conduct electricity. Each bolted joint in the path becomes an obstacle to electrons. A 12 volt starter likely tries to do its job on 10 volts.

If a 12 volt starter tries to function on 10 volts magnetic field is reduced. Weak magnetic field means weak torque from the starter, less magnetic choke, less impedance, current skyrockets. As current rises, the electrical energy is not converted to magnetic field. It becomes heat energy.

If I want a starter to work well I fix the points of resistance in the circuit, and ensure I have the biggest, healthiest battery I can fit.

New heavy cables coated in Noalox before being crimped into the terminals, clean battery terminals, each contact surface addressed to conduct as best it can. 

Sometimes bolted castings aren't worth dismantling to clean the surfaces. Consider running a heavy cable from battery ground post to the starter frame.

 

My 6 volt Farmall M starts reliably in all weather to zero. good connections makes it work.

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I've put several 806 starters on 560's It makes them spin over

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7 hours ago, Willie B said:

Don't know what alternative starter you might want.

I got another concept:

Unwind the wire making up the windings in a starter, you will have little or no magnetic field. Connect that to batteries of correct voltage, the amperage will be outrageous! Wind it back up, magnetic impedance, or magnetic choke limits the amperage. 

 

Battery, through starter, back to battery is a series circuit. The physics of a series circuit is that there is 12 volts. Every point of resistance takes some voltage. A battery terminal connects to a battery, and a cable. Each terminal has at least two points of contact. resistance anywhere reduces voltage delivered to the starter. In the portion of the starter circuit we refer to as ground, we depend on the tractor components to conduct electricity. Each bolted joint in the path becomes an obstacle to electrons. A 12 volt starter likely tries to do its job on 10 volts.

If a 12 volt starter tries to function on 10 volts magnetic field is reduced. Weak magnetic field means weak torque from the starter, less magnetic choke, less impedance, current skyrockets. As current rises, the electrical energy is not converted to magnetic field. It becomes heat energy.

If I want a starter to work well I fix the points of resistance in the circuit, and ensure I have the biggest, healthiest battery I can fit.

New heavy cables coated in Noalox before being crimped into the terminals, clean battery terminals, each contact surface addressed to conduct as best it can. 

Sometimes bolted castings aren't worth dismantling to clean the surfaces. Consider running a heavy cable from battery ground post to the starter frame.

 

My 6 volt Farmall M starts reliably in all weather to zero. good connections makes it work.

Spot on willie b!  My 806 was a slow starter for years. Cleaned all connections. Heavy cable from negative to starter body. Cleaned brushes and commutator. New solenoid and good battery. Transformed it. Starts easily now. 

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denso makes small, torque and gear reduction units,works good on apps where they will fit

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I have used the starters from the 806 thru the 4166 in 560s  I reclock them to avoid the steering gear if they need it works real good 

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New heavy cables and 2 group 31's under the hood makes the one here work.

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ive never had any issues starting my 560s with two 6volts - need good glow plugs and they fire right up in my experience 

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Posted (edited)

Paul Marlatt tractor has a gear reduction starter for pulling I think it is around ~$350.  I will consider this for my 656 if I have issues with my 9:1 compression vs rebuilding the old starter.  Should be the same 460-560-656.

Scratch that its actually Lemmons and its $400.

https://www.lemmonstractor.com/pulling

Edited by 460
Revised contact info

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I know it doesn’t change cranking speed, but didn’t someone use some magic modified glow plugs from a powerstroke in the 282?

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Yes, the threads need to be chased on either the glow plug or the engine and wiring modifications for higher amp draw.

I installed a starter from CIH for my 606D, was told it fit a variety of models. It spun it over really fast and made it start much better. 

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13 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

ive never had any issues starting my 560s with two 6volts - need good glow plugs and they fire right up in my experience 

When my 560 was just a kid it would start easily. If it was below zero plug it in and if you had to start it cold out in the field count to 100 on the blow plugs while holding them in. But i am nearly 70 now and the same 560---same wiring----overhauled only once when it needed it about 3 times as it is my water pumping tractor. Last i knew it had over 20,000 hours. Lots out there like it. They are old and tired. Wake up a 59 year old work horse

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Right on Willie B!

New brushes and bushings in the starter too can help.

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On 6/3/2020 at 10:01 AM, mmi said:

denso makes small, torque and gear reduction units,works good on apps where they will fit

Yeah that's what I went to on the 7.3 a huge difference.

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Put a starter off a 915 combine on mine when I had it. You could ride around with the starter if you wanted. Pretty tight fit, but man did it start.

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