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Missouri Mule

Hard start issue

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986 of neighbors is getting hard to start without using ether. He doesnt have much money and I would like to help him with it. If it were mine I'd start by sending the injection pump and injectors in but he cant/wont afford to holeshot it.  When it runs it runs good, makes decent power. Doesnt smoke, and burns clean. If you were broke as a joke where would you start here? 

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Id check the timing first. Might not be off or help much but its free to try.

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4 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

Make sure that cranking speed is fast.

New cables, new batteries. It cranks good. He says it never started good in cold but slowly has been getting worse even In warmer weather. I know if you shut it off hot its hard to start if you dont let it set a few minutes. I've killed it a couple times and found this out. 

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9 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

Id check the timing first. Might not be off or help much but its free to try.

Your right. It's free to check. But it runs so smooth once it starts I'm skeptical 

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1 minute ago, Missouri Mule said:

Your right. It's free to check. But it runs so smooth once it starts I'm skeptical 

Yeah your probably right. But id still check it if it were me.  Good luck.

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sounds like a pump issue for sure. But if he doesn't have any money to fix it right, ether it is. lol! The prices of ambac parts is getting absolutely ridiculous!

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Hard to start when hot you mean it spins but won't fire.Or cranks hard and slow.Spins and won't fire I'd say inj.pump wore and heat affects a wore pump. Had that happen on a couple engines.Not cranking fast,starter,batteries.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jacka said:

Hard to start when hot you mean it spins but won't fire.Or cranks hard and slow.Spins and won't fire I'd say inj.pump wore and heat affects a wore pump. Had that happen on a couple engines.Not cranking fast,starter,batteries.

 

Yah it spins over decent either way. It used to be worse but he replaced batteries and cables. That improved tremendously but still not right.

 

25 minutes ago, Injpumped said:

sounds like a pump issue for sure. But if he doesn't have any money to fix it right, ether it is. lol! The prices of ambac parts is getting absolutely ridiculous!

Let me ask you this, are the settings on a 1086 similar enough to 986? I know this would be alot of trouble for nothing but I would be willing to swap him pumps to prove his needs to be rebuilt. This is the show me state. 🤷‍♂️ bad idea or what? I doubt I'd put his pump on mine but mine starts great and would at least prove it's not compression or injector issue right? 

  

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My brother had a 986 like that. Was that way when he bought it.  Used.    The starter solenoid went bad replaced it when to crank it make sure it was done.  It spun over one time and fired up.   Started great after that.    Just neede 1/2 a rpm more i guess.      But thought it was good before 

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5 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

Let me ask you this, are the settings on a 1086 similar enough to 986?

close enough for what you're doing. A 10 is set for just a little more fuel delivery than a 9 being non turbo.

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I wouldn't risk a potential problem by removing and reinstalling your injector pump. If he can't afford to rebuild his pump he sure can't afford to rebuild his and yours both. Thx-Ace

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16 hours ago, acem said:

I wouldn't risk a potential problem by removing and reinstalling your injector pump. If he can't afford to rebuild his pump he sure can't afford to rebuild his and yours both. Thx-Ace

Your probably right ace.

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I commend you for wanting to help. I would not be afraid to switch pumps to be sure. Not really any way to wreck yours unless his engine oil is contaminated. Then you know for sure. We have done that very thing and it can be a surprise either way. Did one that we were sure the pump was bad and it wasn't the pump at all.

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1 hour ago, INTERNATIONAL 1466 said:

I commend you for wanting to help. I would not be afraid to switch pumps to be sure. Not really any way to wreck yours unless his engine oil is contaminated. Then you know for sure. We have done that very thing and it can be a surprise either way. Did one that we were sure the pump was bad and it wasn't the pump at all.

I'm afraid its compression. Sure runs good and smooth otherwise though. I sure hope not 

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Could the primer pump knob on pump suck air in? I know they all leak when you try to pump on them but this one spews fuel out. 

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These usually start VERY well and down to -30 below with a sniff of ether.

You said it cranks fast and will start using ether.

Pull the air cleaner to make sure it is clean. I have found these almost plugged solid.

I always start these at wide open throttle then idle it down right away when it starts.

It should start well without doing this though.

The timing could be easily checked.

You should fix, replace or remove the primer pump if leaking that bad

Yes, air will leak in before fuel will leak out.

When were the fuel filters replaced?

If filters almost plugged, then transfer pump would be trying to pull fuel and getting air instead.

If still poor start, should do a compression test and if OK, then have the pump tested for enough output.

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usually an engine that is hard starting cold, is low on compression, hard starting hot as well, is a good indication the pump head is junk, especially since it doesn't smoke while it's cranking. Swap pumps to confirm, you won't hurt anything. Sell him your good pump, and have his rebuilt for your tractor, splits the costs some. In my shop the M100's have been getting upwards of around 1500 to rebuild. Many come in with worn out head, tappet, or cam etc, more than just a re-seal. Ambac parts have gone up too on a few essential rebuild parts. 

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The hand primer has a sealing ring that will usually fix the leak. Seems like it was hard to put on. Thx-Ace

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Thanks guys every ambac pump I own all leak when pumping to prime some. But this one gushes out when pumping. So I'll go through it all. Fuel filters were replaced in 2018. Doubt theres over 100hrs on them. I'll check the air filter. He can afford the pump, I'd just feel terrible to have him spend that and not fix anything. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford taking a chance on some things. It wouldnt be as good for him. 

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Fuel systems and fuel filters don't care about engine hours. If there has been algae growing in there, it gets worse by the calendar. That can be some nasty stuff!

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Just wondering how this turned out. I to have a 1086 that has plenty of fuel coming from the primary filter to the primer pump, but the pump refuses to push it towards the secondary filter. Tractor starts great and runs ten seconds and dies. I used to be able to feel the primer pushing fuel when I pumped it, now there’s no resistance at all, just creates a vacuum when I lift it and it snaps back down if you release it. 
The problems started a couple days ago. We were moving some dirt and shut it off for a couple minutes, then fired it up and started backing up and it died. Didn’t want to start until I pumped the primer a few times, then it ran fine. Worked it a bit, shut it off then went to move it a few minutes later and it acted the same. This time when I primed it, the primer took a couple strokes before it felt like it caught and pushed fuel. And the tractor fired up and ran fine again. Now it doesn’t feel like the primer is doing anything?  Any ideas would be great.

thanks

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primer check valve could be broken. The one in the inlet can stick closed too, and that keeps them from running. the inlet is the outside one at the back, so the pipe that comes from the primary filter. Take pipe off and look inside with light. Use a pocket screwdriver and push the center plastic part and see if it pushes in. Today's sticky fuel can make it very sticky, thus shutting off fuel flow to the transfer pump.

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22 minutes ago, Injpumped said:

primer check valve could be broken. The one in the inlet can stick closed too, and that keeps them from running. the inlet is the outside one at the back, so the pipe that comes from the primary filter. Take pipe off and look inside with light. Use a pocket screwdriver and push the center plastic part and see if it pushes in. Today's sticky fuel can make it very sticky, thus shutting off fuel flow to the transfer pump.

 

       I have a couple of these engines that act just like Waskadaman  has described.   When one of them starts up and dies,  I remove the inlet fuel line from the Injection pump and take a  small punch and insert it in the fitting on the rear of the pump.  A very light bump on the check valve in the pump will unstick the inlet check valve and the tractor will run until it is left to set for a couple of months.

       What must I do to prevent this or replace the check valves?

        Thank you.

GT&T

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On 6/15/2020 at 2:18 PM, Waskadaman said:

Just wondering how this turned out. I to have a 1086 that has plenty of fuel coming from the primary filter to the primer pump, but the pump refuses to push it towards the secondary filter. Tractor starts great and runs ten seconds and dies. I used to be able to feel the primer pushing fuel when I pumped it, now there’s no resistance at all, just creates a vacuum when I lift it and it snaps back down if you release it. 
The problems started a couple days ago. We were moving some dirt and shut it off for a couple minutes, then fired it up and started backing up and it died. Didn’t want to start until I pumped the primer a few times, then it ran fine. Worked it a bit, shut it off then went to move it a few minutes later and it acted the same. This time when I primed it, the primer took a couple strokes before it felt like it caught and pushed fuel. And the tractor fired up and ran fine again. Now it doesn’t feel like the primer is doing anything?  Any ideas would be great.

thanks

Are your rubber fuel lines getting old and collapsing inside?  That will cause all kinds of problems. 

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