MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I believe I have a ring and pinion problem with our 1586 mfwd. I was disking today all was good when sudden the tractor stopped and just the front end was spinning. I tried every gear in every combo, but no avail. Only the front end will move the tractor around. I got it home, with no grinding noises or obvious metal in the rear end dipstick. Now, I believe that it has something to do with the ring and pinion because if it was anything in the trans, the front end would not pull it around. The transfer case for the front end attached to the rear end housing right inside of the saddle tank. What about the planetary gear sets? Would they act like the old manual lock out hubs on the Ford pickup trucks, where if one goes bad, all of the power goes to it, so therefore the other side doesn't turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksfarmdude Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 7 hours ago, MinnesotaFarmall said: I believe I have a ring and pinion problem with our 1586 mfwd. I was disking today all was good when sudden the tractor stopped and just the front end was spinning. I tried every gear in every combo, but no avail. Only the front end will move the tractor around. I got it home, with no grinding noises or obvious metal in the rear end dipstick. Now, I believe that it has something to do with the ring and pinion because if it was anything in the trans, the front end would not pull it around. The transfer case for the front end attached to the rear end housing right inside of the saddle tank. What about the planetary gear sets? Would they act like the old manual lock out hubs on the Ford pickup trucks, where if one goes bad, all of the power goes to it, so therefore the other side doesn't turn? Sounds like a differential spider gear cross failure does the tractor have a diff lock? possbiliy a problem in one of the final drives too like a broken sun gear but 'd think that would have caused alot of noise or jerking before it would go out You can also take the third link cover off and watch the ring gear while a helper puts the tractor in gear safely of course and watching to see if the ring gear is turning make sure the front end is disengaged also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtBoyz07 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Start dropping the drain plugs on the reared housing and see where the parts come falling out . You can pull the 3rd arm cover to look inside at the ring and pinion , the parts that fall out of what drain plug will tell you where you will be taking it apart . If it’s and outboard planetary that not the worst job , if it’s the differential you can pull that out with out splitting it just have to pull the wheels and axel housings , a little more work but not terrible . Do not put new after market new parts in , get OEM used stuff so you don’t have to do it again in a year or two . Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale560 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 7 hours ago, MinnesotaFarmall said: I believe I have a ring and pinion problem with our 1586 mfwd. I was disking today all was good when sudden the tractor stopped and just the front end was spinning. I tried every gear in every combo, but no avail. Only the front end will move the tractor around. I got it home, with no grinding noises or obvious metal in the rear end dipstick. Now, I believe that it has something to do with the ring and pinion because if it was anything in the trans, the front end would not pull it around. The transfer case for the front end attached to the rear end housing right inside of the saddle tank. What about the planetary gear sets? Would they act like the old manual lock out hubs on the Ford pickup trucks, where if one goes bad, all of the power goes to it, so therefore the other side doesn't turn? Years ago neighbor had a real nice late 1586 did exact thing yours is. His wasn’t a mfwd so it just stopped. He took it to local dealer new clutch and ta installed. No move yet. They started to look and spider pin broke or came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 hours ago, DirtBoyz07 said: Start dropping the drain plugs on the reared housing and see where the parts come falling out . You can pull the 3rd arm cover to look inside at the ring and pinion , the parts that fall out of what drain plug will tell you where you will be taking it apart . If it’s and outboard planetary that not the worst job , if it’s the differential you can pull that out with out splitting it just have to pull the wheels and axel housings , a little more work but not terrible . Do not put new after market new parts in , get OEM used stuff so you don’t have to do it again in a year or two . Danny Thanks Danny, that's what I was hoping to hear. I can deal with a little extra, just wasn't looking forward to splitting this machine again. Two years ago I had it apart, completely destroyed the constant mesh gears and broke the bottom trans shaft in half. I installed one that measured a little thicker from the salvage yard to avoid these problems. Would it be worth while to needle the diff while I have it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky966boy Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 That’s a nice looking tractor I bet it will pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtBoyz07 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Let me know if you need any parts , our. Are IH dealer has a salvage yard and they might have the stuff you need . Send me a pm and I can get you hooked up With them . Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHC-DK Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 17 hours ago, MinnesotaFarmall said: Would it be worth while to needle the diff while I have it out? I would like to know that too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acem Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I can help with the parts too. There are alot of 15s in the salvage yard and no home for the parts down here. With all that traction and the DT436 you could make alot of pulling power. I bet it is hard on TAs. Thx-Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy56 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Pinion shaft? Was pulling a 29 foot JD 1600 chisel plow with a 1486 for a few years. One day it just stopped going. Every thing worked but would not move. Old tractor fixer guy said that was only the 3rd one he has seen broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 This girl has a repower, dt468 with about 200hp. It has held up nicely till a couple years ago when the trans shaft broke. We opted to replace the ta and not just the quill gear on the back for reassurance. Where are you located with the 15 parts?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acem Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I live in western Arkansas but help a guy in SE AR with a salvage yard. There used to be alot of 1586s in the delta. Now they are mostly homeless. Thx-Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksfarmdude Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 3 hours ago, MinnesotaFarmall said: This girl has a repower, dt468 with about 200hp. It has held up nicely till a couple years ago when the trans shaft broke. We opted to replace the ta and not just the quill gear on the back for reassurance. Where are you located with the 15 parts?? Do you pull it like 200 hp also? that's what tells the story not HP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 Just use it on a 14' disk. Really doesn't pull it fast or hard on it. The only reason we opted to put a 466 in it, was we needed extra PTO hp for chopper and it was actually cheaper for a src reman 466 than to have the dealer rebuild a 436. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksfarmdude Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, MinnesotaFarmall said: Just use it on a 14' disk. Really doesn't pull it fast or hard on it. The only reason we opted to put a 466 in it, was we needed extra PTO hp for chopper and it was actually cheaper for a src reman 466 than to have the dealer rebuild a 436. Wow 14 ft disc is all ? I pulled a 21 ft with my 1086 your definitely not overloading it then for PTO work even 200 hp won't really do you much good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 Gosh, now you got me wondering.... Maybe it isn't a 14'... I'd have to check it out again. It's been a long time since I've done anything with it. Our soil is pretty heavy, so no matter what it's pulling good, but not hard. Compaired to our other stock 1586, it's a night and day difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TP from Central PA Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 That disk in the picture behind it is definitely wider than 14ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 10, 2020 Author Share Posted May 10, 2020 Yep just measured it. 22'. Don't know what I was thinking... Brain fart I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DroschaFamilyDairy Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 On 5/8/2020 at 7:46 AM, dale560 said: Years ago neighbor had a real nice late 1586 did exact thing yours is. His wasn’t a mfwd so it just stopped. He took it to local dealer new clutch and ta installed. No move yet. They started to look and spider pin broke or came out. Several years ago we also had our "15" spider pin broke, It wasn't the worse job we had done on a Tractor. We did "Replace" a lot of parts, Most of the Bearings, a used low Hour Ring & pinion, Clutch & TA, our PTO gear set had a Tooth missing! a New set was installed. When the tractor was back in the "Field", We felt confident about the Integrity of the Tractor, "Never" had trouble with it again, Still on our Farm. Jim Droscha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Mech Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Most of the time when a spider gear set goes it takes out the bull pinion bearing on the right side. Differential gets its lube from the left side. Oil flushes through the center and carries the contaminated oil to the right diff support bearing, and the inner bull pinion bearing. Plan to pull the axles. As far as used parts, all the differential cross's and carriers are the same. Look for ones out of the smaller tractors as they are usually in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirlbeck Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but the wrong split gasket between the clutch housing and rear end housing will cause differential failure due to lack of lube oil being supplied to the R&P and diff. I think there is a pretty good chance the wrong split gasket was used when the work was performed several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted May 16, 2020 Author Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 5/10/2020 at 8:41 AM, pirlbeck said: I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but the wrong split gasket between the clutch housing and rear end housing will cause differential failure due to lack of lube oil being supplied to the R&P and diff. I think there is a pretty good chance the wrong split gasket was used when the work was performed several years ago. I would take that as a possibility, but it has been nearly four or five years. We have used this tractor ever since every spring, it's the only tractor we use on the disk because of the power and mfwd combo. I would say that it should have failed prior to that due to lack of oil. We do about three hundred acres of corn a year. Plus, a fifty or so acres of hay replant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHC-DK Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Any news on this subject ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaFarmall Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 Got it to where I can finally look at it. I pulled three point link cover off and found the ring and pinion goes around. I noticed oil is coming out from around the left side bull pinion shaft, and some comes out the diff carrier. Looks like all four pins are still in there, but can not see completely into the diff carrier. The axle shafts on the inside of the rear end housing do not move, as I expected, so wondering if it's in ring and pinion and just can't see the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfred54 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Yup, looks like spider gears and cross shaft. Had a 1486 do just as you explained. Both axle housings need to come off, no need to split tractor. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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