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Lots of both tillage and no till here in west central WI. I do tillage so I can do minimum spray, I don’t like using tons of chemicals. 

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I’m not convinced no till actually shows an increase in yield simply because of that but rather the benefit is in the fact that you make less trips across the field therefore less fuel used and less s

I think no till has it’s benefits, but I think tillage does as well. If your soil lends itself to no till then you need to take advantage of it. Personally in our heavy clay soils I still think you ne

We have been no- till since the late 90's.  Rotate corn and soybeans.  Use row cleaners and coulters. Must be patient for it to dry before planting.   We are in the field a week after the neighbors th

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2 minutes ago, bitty said:

I have seen the exact same herbicide used also but a little added for burn down as we have a cover crop of rye growing. 

Soil type does make slight difference between what works for me compared to you or even someone just ten miles away.

We have no issues opening a furrow for the seed. 

 

Planter maintenance is more important for no-till than conventional tillage. In the end it costs less per acre to get the same yields in the end . Because of the short season here we have seen a slight advantage to row cleaners even though we chop 100%  

We have always run row cleaners also. I'm not sure they are necessary but beneficial. People just need to remember the row cleaner isn't meant to do tillage, just move trash out of the way.

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4 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

From my experiences, in good corn, and by good, I mean 200+, the stalk breakdown on the varieties anymore doesn't occur fast enough to continously do no till.  Guys here run vertical tillage, but I personally think that just kicks the can down the road from my experience.  Another thing is with the weeds and spray material costs factor in.  What used to be done years ago with x number of spray app's, seems to take more now even with new spray materials.  Some guys around me have gone by to doing some tillage in sort of a rotation to get a handle on the trash.  The guys that farm the neighbors over the fencerow from me even got rid of their Cat 75 and bought a Kinze Repowered 8850 just for a inline ripper and chisel plow work.  They ran the chisel here this year and they are serious no-tillers, so maybe the latest flavor is wearing off?

We have an emu 335 and it just leaves all the residue on top. You can get similar results with a stalk shedder in my opinion so I will agree with the “kicking the can down the road thing “

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5 hours ago, bitty said:

We switch the direction around by unbolting the bearings on two of the planters . Disk is directional. The second planter that we just got we're going to try spraying the fertilizer on at the closing discs so we had to leave those cupped out .IMG_20200503_172656300.thumb.jpg.4efe5de12f2e9ea4f3eefd0ba474dc7b.jpgIMG_20200503_172714376.thumb.jpg.23c09c59246e74d5c3c568ee723c45b5.jpgIMG_20200503_172708782.thumb.jpg.8ac85d8a6b57641d748eba0e6948b3cc.jpg

this is a new one for us. We have to finish getting the fertilizer usable.

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Thanks I like the idea of those. I will try to get those on a couple rows this week so I can see if there’s a difference 

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We have been no tilling with tynes and presswheels for 20 years in Australia, just have to be careful that a hard pan does not develop 10 inches from the surface . I usually pull out the chisel plough  every 5 years and go perpendicular to how I have been no tilling. Beauty of it is that I am not on the tractor scarifying and  discing, such a brain dead task sitting on a tractor could use my time elsewhere

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No till definitely has a place.  Just be careful that it remains a management tool and does not become an end in itself.  I have seen the benefits of no till, and also the drawbacks.  When you say that you are corn on corn, I am a little concerned by that.  I’ve seen no till corn on corn be an on going disaster and I suspect it was a significant factor in the downfall of the operation doing it.  Corn/beans rotation seems a safer bet.  

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9 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

No till definitely has a place.  Just be careful that it remains a management tool and does not become an end in itself.  I have seen the benefits of no till, and also the drawbacks.  When you say that you are corn on corn, I am a little concerned by that.  I’ve seen no till corn on corn be an on going disaster and I suspect it was a significant factor in the downfall of the operation doing it.  Corn/beans rotation seems a safer bet.  

Going to assume that we will be turning it black every other year if possible. I appreciate everyone’s opinions on this

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We switched to no-till about 12 years ago and have seen steady improvement in yields and huge improvements in soil health since the start. Crop rotation is important. Grain corn on corn year after year could cause a residue problem after a few years. We chop 70- 80% of corn for silage so that helps with residue. Dairy ground is on a 3 year corn-alfalfa rotation. Grain ground is on corn-bean rotation. Short rotations also helps greatly with insect and disease pressures and also herbicide rotation. The changes to soil tilth and soil structure is remarkable. We also use a variety of cover crops in the fall depending on timing and weather.

The biggest savings is in equipment needed, labor and time. As far as planter goes we use a Kinze 16/30 with no row cleaners, but we put new iron on it every year to ensure openers are doing what they are supposed to. Put 10-34-0 through the keetons with mo-jo wires and 30% with 2.75%S out the back through Totally Tubular TT-300's behind Exapta spiked closing wheels in front of drag chain. Simple and works well.

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43 minutes ago, Gearclash said:

No till definitely has a place.  Just be careful that it remains a management tool and does not become an end in itself.  I have seen the benefits of no till, and also the drawbacks.  When you say that you are corn on corn, I am a little concerned by that.  I’ve seen no till corn on corn be an on going disaster and I suspect it was a significant factor in the downfall of the operation doing it.  Corn/beans rotation seems a safer bet.  

Some of the reason we plant what we do is based on  information we get from agronomist  that analyze our soil . 

We have fields that have been planted to  corn and only corn for 50 years or more because that’s what Produces the best yield.  

We also have fields that alternately get soybeans and corn . 

All irrigated except for a few pivot corners where we don’t have corner catchers .

Planting with GPS guidance allows us to alternate where the row will be so we’re not trying to put the crop in last years stalks . 

We still use a field conditioner in a few places but   cultivating stopped back in the 80’s 

  

 

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11 hours ago, IH Forever said:

We've been no tilling for 25+ years so I don't buy the concern about residue build up. Same herbicide programs used here for no till or conventional till. Only difference is that we sometimes use a burn down for beans into corn ground, and that is a lot cheaper than the cost of tillage.

What is the yeild?  I hear that from guys around me............Big difference going from 150 to BT corn with stalks like Bamboo running 250.  If they are tearing up tires, running corn on corn for years on end no-tilling I don't see it without help in either sizing the material or burying it.  And even just sizing it will just kick the can down the road.  Also another issue that nobody mentioned and its a up and coming issue here is slugs.  They are becoming a bigger and bigger threat where I am, the more the residue, the worse they are.  I really think the guys over the fence are doing tillage for that reason as they had dead spots I could see from my house up on the hill above it.  I talked to their crop scout and he said they really fought them last year, but I didn't hear a peep out of any of the guys at the farm.  Planting green helps a ton, but with the weather these days, how do you get cover on in the mud other than a airplane?

Is there a right answer..............nope, haven't found one yet.

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15 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

From my experiences, in good corn, and by good, I mean 200+, the stalk breakdown on the varieties anymore doesn't occur fast enough to continously do no till.  Guys here run vertical tillage, but I personally think that just kicks the can down the road from my experience.  Another thing is with the weeds and spray material costs factor in.  What used to be done years ago with x number of spray app's, seems to take more now even with new spray materials.  Some guys around me have gone by to doing some tillage in sort of a rotation to get a handle on the trash.  The guys that farm the neighbors over the fencerow from me even got rid of their Cat 75 and bought a Kinze Repowered 8850 just for a inline ripper and chisel plow work.  They ran the chisel here this year and they are serious no-tillers, so maybe the latest flavor is wearing off?

Are you talking about corn after corn ?

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1 hour ago, TP from Central PA said:

What is the yeild?  I hear that from guys around me............Big difference going from 150 to BT corn with stalks like Bamboo running 250.  If they are tearing up tires, running corn on corn for years on end no-tilling I don't see it without help in either sizing the material or burying it.  And even just sizing it will just kick the can down the road.  Also another issue that nobody mentioned and its a up and coming issue here is slugs.  They are becoming a bigger and bigger threat where I am, the more the residue, the worse they are.  I really think the guys over the fence are doing tillage for that reason as they had dead spots I could see from my house up on the hill above it.  I talked to their crop scout and he said they really fought them last year, but I didn't hear a peep out of any of the guys at the farm.  Planting green helps a ton, but with the weather these days, how do you get cover on in the mud other than a airplane?

Is there a right answer..............nope, haven't found one yet.

Depends on the year, but we generally have yields of 200 - 250. 

And I should clarify that most of our corn is strip tilled, not true no till.  For corn on beans and corn on corn we strip till in the spring using Dawn Pluribus units.  it doesn't bury any trash but does leave a clear strip to plant into.  We've seen a good yield increase with strip till vs. no-till.  I think partially due to quicker warm up of the soil in addition to nutrients right in the root zone.  We have a couple fields where we get hog manure injected onto the bean stubble, on those farms we do field cultivate prior to planting.  Soybeans are all no-tilled into standing stalks.

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2 hours ago, IH Forever said:

Depends on the year, but we generally have yields of 200 - 250. 

And I should clarify that most of our corn is strip tilled, not true no till.  For corn on beans and corn on corn we strip till in the spring using Dawn Pluribus units.  it doesn't bury any trash but does leave a clear strip to plant into.  We've seen a good yield increase with strip till vs. no-till.  I think partially due to quicker warm up of the soil in addition to nutrients right in the root zone.  We have a couple fields where we get hog manure injected onto the bean stubble, on those farms we do field cultivate prior to planting.  Soybeans are all no-tilled into standing stalks.

Now the facts come out................that is entirely different than pulling into a 250 bu field and dropping the planter right into it with only row cleaners. Also with your black strips you won't have near the slug issues.  

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We have been no- till since the late 90's.  Rotate corn and soybeans.  Use row cleaners and coulters. Must be patient for it to dry before planting.   We are in the field a week after the neighbors that till it up to dry.  Yields and soil quality have improved.   Topsoil loss is limited.

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I am 100% no till and 100% happy with it.  Corn on corn, corn on sb, and SB on corn.  I picked up a farm that has been no till for 7+ years and took off running.  I did see 7-10 but of yield drag for C on C, but that was the first year of C on C so it wasn't a surprise.

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7 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

Now the facts come out................that is entirely different than pulling into a 250 bu field and dropping the planter right into it with only row cleaners. Also with your black strips you won't have near the slug issues.  

 Agree, it's different than no till. However the original point was that we haven't had a problem residue. Strips till doesn't bury or size residue.

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1 minute ago, IH Forever said:

 Agree, it's different than no till. However the original point was that we haven't had a problem residue. Strips till doesn't bury or size residue.

It moves it and you got a "Tilled" strip.................That is my point.  We tried a zone till here for a time, in the pre-gps days................It worked ok, but was alot of upkeep. 

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You can see in the soybean stubble of my first photo that the row cleaners make a nice clear patch for the row unit to plant in.  By fall, the old residue is mostly rotted away.  Even the modern, resilient stalks are not a big issue.   Those rear tires are nearly 10 years old now, not much stubble wear from the stalks.

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16 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

It moves it and you got a "Tilled" strip.................That is my point.  We tried a zone till here for a time, in the pre-gps days................It worked ok, but was alot of upkeep. 

Yeah, there’s no upkeep to a moldboard plow....shares last forever.:rolleyes:

I’m not anti-tillage by any means, I am pro-profitability. I just think it’s funny all the reasons people come up with why no-till won’t work. If you enjoy doing tillage fine, go for it, that’s all the reason I need. I actually enjoy it too but that doesn’t make it the best fit for our operation.

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3 hours ago, IH Forever said:

Yeah, there’s no upkeep to a moldboard plow....shares last forever.:rolleyes:

I’m not anti-tillage by any means, I am pro-profitability. I just think it’s funny all the reasons people come up with why no-till won’t work. If you enjoy doing tillage fine, go for it, that’s all the reason I need. I actually enjoy it too but that doesn’t make it the best fit for our operation.

Well, when you factored in the upkeep, and planting in a wet spot of just opened soil, which didn't always work well, the zone till didn't make much sense.  Also, the planter bar was not designed for the zone till to be hanging on the front of it either, which also gave issues, and I don't even include that in all the coulter upkeep on the zone tiller.  

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55 minutes ago, farmer john 8910 said:

I guess I didn’t mention that we haven’t been able to get any success with no till on our wetter ground so far just side hills 

Like anything else, one shoe doesn't fit all.  

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On 5/4/2020 at 10:20 PM, Gearclash said:

No till definitely has a place.  Just be careful that it remains a management tool and does not become an end in itself.  I have seen the benefits of no till, and also the drawbacks.  When you say that you are corn on corn, I am a little concerned by that.  I’ve seen no till corn on corn be an on going disaster and I suspect it was a significant factor in the downfall of the operation doing it.  Corn/beans rotation seems a safer bet.  

Does the corn ever get affected by slugs

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