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lorenzo
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1 minute ago, mike newman said:

...That is so sad,Art......I would have hoped that the   "captain '..the crew boss , of that aircraft would have made the call to fly.....not some desk bound 'hero'

New  Zealand  always sends fire fighting crews over to the US , in times of those    fire outbreaks.....and to our Neighbour's , Australia.......  A thankless bloody job for all involved...

Mike

I, too, hope that was not the case, I got my impression from Juan Brown's "Blanco Lirio" You tube analysis on the crash, but I may have misunderstood, but I do know that he said the winds were much higher, and unpredictable than would have been considered 'safe' for flying under those conditions.

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On 12/4/2020 at 12:53 PM, Art From Coleman said:

The crew of the C-130 water bomber who lost their lives in Australia, seem to have been 'pushed' into flying that day, despite the high winds in the drop zone which led to the crash.

I watched the video of the crash,and,whilst hard to see all of it ,to me it looked liked he got into heavy smoke after the drop,gained a little height ,left wing low,that changed a bit ,right wing low,then some altitude loss,left wing low again at lower altitude.Apparently there was evidence that wing tip touched ground prior to impact.If he was at 200 feet or lower,remember the C130 has a 132 foot wing span,so not much room for error.He would have dropped the retardant  at 145-150 knots (about 250 odd feet per second) and if they were not expecting  IMC conditions,the natural tendency is a left or right bank downward,so at that low altitude and speed ,you dont have a whole lot going for you. Also the terrain could have been higher at that point than at the initial point of entry for his drop.   That phenomena is called (controlled flight into terrain) when visibility to the ground is obscured The FAA gives "life expectancy"  in  inadvertant IMC conditions of  90 seconds !! The wind  at the time was out of the West at 15-16 kts,with gusts .However further to the  East , 59 km away ,other aircrews had rejected  further action on another fire due to high winds ,This maybe what Art was refering to re "pushed " into flying,which does not seem to be the case in this instanc e.The PIC ( ex military) had about 4000 odd hours  with 3000 odd on type .This is not  a huge amount   in the civilian world ,but he was  very well versed and trained  in the C130  aircraft,so that makes it even tougher to accept,these guys doing a tough  job and dying.  For my two cents,I would venture that disorientation  in the smoke ,could well have been a contributing factor . People may wonder if I am qualified to opine  on this matter,but I have done  quite  a lot of water bombing in nearly 4 decades of flying,and have seen a lot of bad things happen,and lost friends and colleagues on this  type of work,as it is, and can, be quite risky. I think of all professional pilots as "kindred spirits" and it pains us all when one is lost doing their job. Again ,on this particular topic,this is entirely my opinion ,be it right or wrong.

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Fire And Fury: B-25s Are Pictured Flying Past Mount Vesuvius In Italy As Lava And Ash Spews From The Top Of The Volcano. The Eruption Killed 57 As It Destroyed The Village Of San Sebastiano And San Giorg In March 1944 While Allied Forces Were Battling For Supremacy In The Skies"

enjoy_these_rare_pieces_of_history_640_39.jpg.1072ad2498fb39a6731b5e9b2f326ce3.jpg

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2 hours ago, sandhiller said:

Fire And Fury: B-25s Are Pictured Flying Past Mount Vesuvius In Italy As Lava And Ash Spews From The Top Of The Volcano. The Eruption Killed 57 As It Destroyed The Village Of San Sebastiano And San Giorg In March 1944 While Allied Forces Were Battling For Supremacy In The Skies"

enjoy_these_rare_pieces_of_history_640_39.jpg.1072ad2498fb39a6731b5e9b2f326ce3.jpg

My old man told me when they started the italian campaign etna spewed her guts when they were in sicily, said it was something to see.

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45 minutes ago, 806Jordy said:

I dont that guy made it Lorenzo....

Yup he lived, his name was aird, this was mid 1962.

The first pic is like lorenzos,

The second pic is aftermath smoke still visible.

Third pic shows greenhouse where aird crashed, look at the broken roof section, he had multiple fractures and multiple cuts from broken glass.

 

Lightning-Ejection.jpg

Lightning-wreckage.jpg

Greenhouse.jpg

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On 12/4/2020 at 11:39 PM, sandhiller said:

1607057142712.png.7730ee66c16b1b2f34230155d71dafd6.png

This is my Grandfather's 1911 from WWII. He was shot down twice and lost his co-pilot both times. The clear grip panel is from the windscreen of a Messerschmidt ME-109 that he fought over Europe. After the battle, mechanics from the Army Air Corps cut out the windscreen and made the grip panel.

Best part is, years latter his daughter (my Mother), married a German by the name of Messersmith. I always wondered how that first introduction went down! Little bit of tension in the parlor? ?

 

 

 

1911-1.jpg

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4 minutes ago, messer9696 said:

This is my Grandfather's 1911 from WWII. He was shot down twice and lost his co-pilot both times. The clear grip panel is from the windscreen of a Messerschmidt ME-109 that he fought over Europe. After the battle, mechanics from the Army Air Corps cut out the windscreen and made the grip panel.

Best part is, years latter his daughter (my Mother), married a German by the name of Messersmith. I always wondered how that first introduction went down! Little bit of tension in the parlor? ?

 

 

 

1911-1.jpg

Wow, the history involved in that one gun, that’s a treasured item.

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1 hour ago, messer9696 said:

This is my Grandfather's 1911 from WWII. He was shot down twice and lost his co-pilot both times. The clear grip panel is from the windscreen of a Messerschmidt ME-109 that he fought over Europe. After the battle, mechanics from the Army Air Corps cut out the windscreen and made the grip panel.

Best part is, years latter his daughter (my Mother), married a German by the name of Messersmith. I always wondered how that first introduction went down! Little bit of tension in the parlor? ?

 

 

 

1911-1.jpg

Would you mind posting a few more pics?

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