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Drawbar lengths. 86 series


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Why did ih make the 1486 draw bar 2" longer than 1086 etc? They made them so long the pto equipment almost wont hook. The next hole in is way in. So I'm considering boring a hole in the middle. Anyone think I'm nuts? 

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10 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

Why did ih make the 1486 draw bar 2" longer than 1086 etc? They made them so long the pto equipment almost wont hook. The next hole in is way in. So I'm considering boring a hole in the middle. Anyone think I'm nuts? 

Nope go for it  Did it myself on a john deere

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IIRC, the 14 was only legally supposed to have the single 1000 PTO, and the hole spacing was correct for that.   Of course farmers & dealers everywhere promptly installed the dual PTO assemblies.   I never even saw a 14 with the OEM single PTO.

We drilled a new hole in our drawbar as well.  Just make sure you drill it to get the correct "spec" - spacing from drawbar to PTO.

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4 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

IIRC, the 14 was only legally supposed to have the single 1000 PTO, and the hole spacing was correct for that.   Of course farmers & dealers everywhere promptly installed the dual PTO assemblies.   I never even saw a 14 with the OEM single PTO.

We drilled a new hole in our drawbar as well.  Just make sure you drill it to get the correct "spec" - spacing from drawbar to PTO.

I have a 986 and a 1086 to measure. Thanks 

Why could they legally not install dual pto? I knew the 15's had single pto but never knew it was a legality issue for ih 

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1 hour ago, Missouri Mule said:

I have a 986 and a 1086 to measure. Thanks 

Why could they legally not install dual pto? I knew the 15's had single pto but never knew it was a legality issue for ih 

It's not a "legal" thing...it's a horsepower thing...1486 was rated at more hp than a 540 shaft should ever have.

Travis

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3 hours ago, Sparky said:

It's not a "legal" thing...it's a horsepower thing...1486 was rated at more hp than a 540 shaft should ever have.

Travis

I guess they didnt plan on the old method always better to have a little too big than a little too small?  

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5 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Of course farmers & dealers everywhere promptly installed the dual PTO assemblies. 

Not meaning to hijack, but did they also change the data centers to read the 540 PTO speed then?

Mine does and a friend who owns 2 1586's and a 1486 says it shouldn't.

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I got the same thing with my 1586 with the 2-speed PTO. SAE standard measurement should be 14" from the end of the 540 shaft to the center of the drawbar hole. Mine's 16".

Only solution I see is a 9/10 series drawbar. A hole 2" off of the existing hole in the drawbar leaves almost no meat between the holes.

 

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30 minutes ago, sandhiller said:

Not meaning to hijack, but did they also change the data centers to read the 540 PTO speed then?

Mine does and a friend who owns 2 1586's and a 1486 says it shouldn't.

The data centers are the same on an 86 series, just a different decal. If you push where the 540 button would be it shows the 540 speed. My 5488 has a 2 speed pto and the 5288 has just the 1000. A neighbor has a 7140 with a 540/1000 in it. I'd guess 98% of the 1456/66/86's have dual pto's in the area. 

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The standards were changed over time because you could buy dual PTO in a 7220 or an 8920 and they were more  rated power than a 1486 and in the sixties you could not order a 1206 with a duel pto

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Not sure what the dealerships did, but our 1486 had the dual PTO, and the decal on the data center for both.   I was told IH could not ship the 1486 with the dual PTO.  My guess?  The dealerships ordered them no PTO, but with the 540/1000 Data center....and then ordered a 540/1000 PTO as a part.  I'll also bet IH made that real easy!  Love to have a salesman from the time give us the actual factual on how all that worked!

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We always ordered in the 1466/86 without a pto and ordered a dual speed pto field install package which was shipped on the same load as the tractor. The data centers were the same. Only the decal was different. 

The electrically operated pto on the later Magnums allowed the dual speed pto as the valve modulated the engagement and prevented a shock load. 

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9 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

So did the correct decal come with the dual speed package and was dealer applied??

Nope. Just got one from the parts department 

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9 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

Why did ih make the 1486 draw bar 2" longer than 1086 etc? They made them so long the pto equipment almost wont hook. The next hole in is way in. So I'm considering boring a hole in the middle. Anyone think I'm nuts? 

I done mine. Took it in to work. Laid it out and drilled it on the drill press. Not sure exactly the steel. Seemed more like a 4140 or 4150. Drilled fine though. 

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3 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I got the same thing with my 1586 with the 2-speed PTO. SAE standard measurement should be 14" from the end of the 540 shaft to the center of the drawbar hole. Mine's 16".

Only solution I see is a 9/10 series drawbar. A hole 2" off of the existing hole in the drawbar leaves almost no meat between the holes.

 

With my 1086 and 986. I would like for my drawbar to be in some anyway. I think my baler tractor especially is flexing too much under heavy load. I have plenty of room on driveline to go in a couple inches at least. What would this hurt? So say I take my 1486 in 4 inches.... it would be 12 instead of 14. Or 13... whichever leaves meat for a new hole. Why does it have to be 14? I've ran 540 equipment with the draw bar in a hole without issue. Just asking not being smart 

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1 hour ago, Missouri Mule said:

With my 1086 and 986. I would like for my drawbar to be in some anyway. I think my baler tractor especially is flexing too much under heavy load. I have plenty of room on driveline to go in a couple inches at least. What would this hurt? So say I take my 1486 in 4 inches.... it would be 12 instead of 14. Or 13... whichever leaves meat for a new hole. Why does it have to be 14? I've ran 540 equipment with the draw bar in a hole without issue. Just asking not being smart 

Going through a ditch or low spot where the driveline will shorten, make sure it doesn't shorten too much or it will break off your 540 pto shaft when you run out of room to telescope....

Travis

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Was the longer length of the drawbar on the 1486 to compensate for the available 20.8X38 tires? Are the lower lift arms of the 3 point hitch on the 1486 longer than a 1086? 

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1 hour ago, Missouri Mule said:

With my 1086 and 986. I would like for my drawbar to be in some anyway. I think my baler tractor especially is flexing too much under heavy load. I have plenty of room on driveline to go in a couple inches at least. What would this hurt? So say I take my 1486 in 4 inches.... it would be 12 instead of 14. Or 13... whichever leaves meat for a new hole. Why does it have to be 14? I've ran 540 equipment with the draw bar in a hole without issue. Just asking not being smart 

At 14" they're not supposed to chatter in tight turns.

I don't think it's all that important on implements with long PTO shafts, but the ones that have a short shaft running to a carrier bearing on the tongue of the implement, it's important. They chatter like a beaver if the distance is wrong any time you go around a corner. Hard on the knuckles, and the ears.

Since I intend to run the 1586 on the chopper at some point, having the drawbar at the right length is pretty important.

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25 minutes ago, 756-310 said:

Was the longer length of the drawbar on the 1486 to compensate for the available 20.8X38 tires? Are the lower lift arms of the 3 point hitch on the 1486 longer than a 1086? 

No, it was due to the PTO. The 1000 PTO is supposed to have a distance of 16" from the end of the shaft to the center hole of the drawbar. The drawbar is 2" longer because the tractor only has a 1000 PTO from the factory.

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20 hours ago, Sparky said:

It's not a "legal" thing...it's a horsepower thing...1486 was rated at more hp than a 540 shaft should ever have.

Travis

Once again I have a question the shafts look about the same size why is 1000 rated at more hp is it something about speed and torque?

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Speed.  A rotating shaft transmits torque & HP, and the faster it turns, the more HP it can transmit.  Roughly, 1000 rpm can transmit 2X more than a 500 rpm.  As the speed increases, torque on the shaft drops for the same HP.   So a HP load that would twist a shaft in two at 500 would be just fine on a 1000.

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getting alot of mileage out of this thread lol

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