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mader656

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1 hour ago, mader656 said:

Headed into the judith river aquifer today but it's only 450 feet here. Hope to pickup a couple gallons

praying you have a great day and find what you need!!!

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There is a handful of 5000’ wells in my neck of the woods. I’ve got a 1400’ well and a 50’ well here. The 50’ supplies a house but doesn’t doesn’t have much capacity. I have never pumped the 1400’ dry it waters my whole place on dry years when the dams dry up. Each pasture has a water tank in it.  20 miles north is where you really gotta go deep to get good water. 

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3 hours ago, ZG6E said:

There is a handful of 5000’ wells in my neck of the woods. I’ve got a 1400’ well and a 50’ well here. The 50’ supplies a house but doesn’t doesn’t have much capacity. I have never pumped the 1400’ dry it waters my whole place on dry years when the dams dry up. Each pasture has a water tank in it.  20 miles north is where you really gotta go deep to get good water. 

Father-in-law is out west of Pueblo and his well is 2300 feet deep and you still can’t drink the water nor fill a 6 foot stock tank without pumping the well dry. 
Where we live has 1 spring that is developed. Good tasting water but not much of it. The house well is okay but only about 6gpm. 

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Keep us posted Mader------everybody is rootin for a good well for you.

We sorta take water for granted here in the Delta (Mississippi River aquifer)------shallow wells @ 20-30 ft; irrigation wells @100-120 ft;  but quality drinking water @ 600-700 ft.

Down side is sometimes Old Man River brings us too much water-------and all of the shallow wells including irrigation wells water is extremely hard with lots of iron.

Been an interesting thread to follow------sources of water and Drainage always interest me from my farmland real estate work.

Water is a valuable commodity.

Good luck----

 

 

DD

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had a well put in 

jan.3rd 2019...just had a point in the basement before that, was just 11 ft from the basement floor to the tip of the point and water was excellant. new well is 37 ft with the pump hanging at 25 feet...casing has to be a minimum of 30 ft. in WI. water was little hard at first so had to install a softener,  had it adjusted a couple times because the water improved to the point it uses about 2/3 less salt than originally.

when they put the well in they hung a pump in the casing and pumped it onto the ground without a pressure tank or any restrictions except the 3/4" hose hooked to it and it was pumping out over 25gpm for almost an hour and never ran dry or sucked air. even after going through the piping in the house i can fill a 5 gallon pail in the bathtub in 14 seconds going through 1/2" copper lines.

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We've got plans to put 2 more wells in at work.  Our problem is, looking at it one way, producing too much water.  I've mentioned this before but the project expects 1,500 gpm each.  My problem is that the way things work out if each come in > than 1,397 (for a total  of 2,794 gpm) then I have to proceed through a whole other layer of permitting.

I have no reason to believe we'll see a cumulative 2,794 (2K gpm IMO is more realistic) but before running aquifer performance and pump tests we'll not know.  I'd hate to have to jump through all the hoops and then come in < 2,794 but I'd also hate to not initiate the permitting early and then find out later after spending a boat load of $$ to find out they might be challenged or denied.

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Todays update got 40 some feet and driller got called out on a emergency something about 400 cows out of water, did hit a pocket of water good size...it didn't recharge tho still in bearpaw shale judith sandstone mix.. Hopefully tomorrow.

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This won't help but it may be of interest in understanding the stratigraphy in your neck of the woods.  I'm guessing based on the section line that the Columbus area is located at about 1/3 or so from the right on the drawing.

 

Schematic-regional-cross-section-of-Upper-Cretaceous-strata-in-Montana-modified-from.png

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Bought where he'll creek ends

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On 4/20/2020 at 9:17 PM, MarkG said:

Do they frac water wells? Could you frac it yourself with dynamite?🤫

Yes! We had our well fracked.

 I have heard of using dry ice to frack a well. 
 

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10 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

This won't help but it may be of interest in understanding the stratigraphy in your neck of the woods.  I'm guessing based on the section line that the Columbus area is located at about 1/3 or so from the right on the drawing.

 

Schematic-regional-cross-section-of-Upper-Cretaceous-strata-in-Montana-modified-from.png

Atila 

Please explain more of what this "map" means and how the formations relate to water production. 

 

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43 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

Atila 

Please explain more of what this "map" means and how the formations relate to water production. 

 

From what i understand the from the top **** creek it hit or miss water, in my case it's really course sandstone that should hold water... Sandstone should hold at least some water... Below the **** Creek is the bearpaw shale it's really fine and hard typically non water bearing. No porosity to this rock. For water..

Below that is the judith sandstone back in sandstone and is a known aquifer layer... Its typically 2-5 gallon a minute. I'd really be happy with this amount... This is deep as I know.

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10 hours ago, mader656 said:

From what i understand the from the top **** creek it hit or miss water, in my case it's really course sandstone that should hold water... Sandstone should hold at least some water... Below the **** Creek is the bearpaw shale it's really fine and hard typically non water bearing. No porosity to this rock. For water..

Below that is the judith sandstone back in sandstone and is a known aquifer layer... Its typically 2-5 gallon a minute. I'd really be happy with this amount... This is deep as I know.

jeeper - mader pretty much nailed it.

Shale's (Bearpaw) = little to zero water yield.  

Dirty clastics (Judith) = little 

I would expect the D1 through D4 transitional coarsening facies of the Judith (if ya hit one) = little to moderate yield

Question to mader....did the driller feel he actually punched through the **** Creek?  Like the Judith it's an extremely dirty formation although locally if you're lucky enough to tap one of it's coarse sandstone lenses water should be present.

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He was pretty confident he punched thru the **** Creek...  In the he'll creek he kept looking at the rock and thinking the rock should hold water...

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Thx for the information mader I hope your quest for water pans out.

Atila

How does mader's area profile compare to an area with good water yields?

What is the best way to pick a well site on a piece of ground?

Is there a way to tell if the rock is fractured enough to produce?

I know your not big on the dowsing but there is some theory behind it that is used in the quest for oil.

It has to do Earth's gravitational field and magnetic field and the liquids impact on them.

Are any of these methods used for oil exploration i.e. thumper trucks, Gravity meters etc. used it the quest for water?

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10 hours ago, jeeper61 said:

Thx for the information mader I hope your quest for water pans out.

Atila

How does mader's area profile compare to an area with good water yields?  Poorly but it's just a matter of hydrogeology.

What is the best way to pick a well site on a piece of ground?  Learn from the successes and failures of others......examination of nearby well logs and the expertise/advice of a well driller familiar w/ the area.  Can't speak for everywhere but here even the logs of un-completed holes need to be submitted.

Is there a way to tell if the rock is fractured enough to produce?  Hard to predict w/out drilling.  In VERY general terms most sedimentary rocks unless they are in a region of significant compressive or extensional structural stress will possess little to moderate fracturing.  Carbonates (limestones/dolomites) are an exception and more prone to fracturing.  Their less ductile than sandstones as I would expect of the dirty sandstones like the H*** Creek and Judith of mader's area to be.  Odd as it may seem crystallines (granites, gabbros, gneiss's, basalt, diorite, quartzites, etc) although having almost zero primary porosity by being brittle can,  when your hit the right shear/fracture zone, can yield huge amounts of water.

Anecdote:  A year or two ago I turned south in Ten Sleep, WY seeking to take a route most not often taken.  About 10 or so miles south stopped at a ranch where the owners were standing out by the road.  Wanted to ask them about my intended route (Glad I did as they said given the recent weather my next 70+ miles might be too much even for 4-wheel drive).

Anyway chewing the fat with the ranch owner, his wife, and what I guessed was a hired hand the conversation eventually came around to water.  They said that their 6-inch well was completed at 1,200 to 1,500 bgs (I forget the exact) in "red rock" and it came in arestian at 3,500 gpm.  Just a tip for 'y'all, if you see red rock in Wyoming it's the Chugwater Fm.  In addition to the rock star flow they said it comes out at 100 psi.  The ranch mistress said if not for their pressure regulator it would take your skin off in the shower.

The Chug laps up onto the flanks of the Bighorns.  Big time recharge to the Chug at high elevations from all that Bighorn meltwater that in this instance provided a perfect scenario for those down dip on the Chug to tap into a phenomenal aquifer.

Point is even in the semi-arid west it basically comes down to the geology present below.

I know your not big on the dowsing but there is some theory behind it that is used in the quest for oil.  Hey I'm not categorically anti-dowsing.  When working construction I knew several guys that could locate buried utilities (water mains, storm/sanitary sewers, phone, electrical).  I tried it and found I didn't have the "gift".  It seems locating water may be another matter as multiple controlled studies have not shown that dowsing was any more successful than random selection.

It has to do Earth's gravitational field and magnetic field and the liquids impact on them.  See above.

Are any of these methods used for oil exploration i.e. thumper trucks, Gravity meters etc. used it the quest for water? Electrical Resistivity Tomography is a useful but not guaranteed tool to identify subsurface water.  In practical application the cost of an ERT survey is outside the bounds of what most peeps would want to spend.

 

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On the subject dowsing-------My buddy and I were discussing this a while ago.  He is a dowser----took a branch off of a willow tree and walked around the yard in a few minuets the branch dove to the ground.  He told me to try it-----walked the same place he did nothing happened.  He then took my hands and we walked around again-----when we came to the 'spot' I could not keep the branch from diveing to the ground.  So it must be something in a persons body that causes the dowsing effect. 

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Be fun to have a few billion $ to play with drilling wholes and dowsing. Back before I lost strength in my hands I could get willow bark to peel of the fresh stick from some source of power pulling it down. I have only had several wholes drilled where I have played with dowsing.Has been just a little water in most. The one I needed the worst ended up at less than a 1gpm at 400 feet. Moved a 150 yards and got 10gpm+ at 250 feet.

I believe most of the dowsers that charge real money for their services have a good background of the local conditions. About like Atilathe was saying. What I would call a educated guess.

 

A question for Atilathe.

With as mixed up as the California Coast range is with all the earthquakes and volcanic activity,any way a geologist could pick a spot on a 600 acre parcel without visiting it.  And not any wells drilled with more than 2 to 5 gpm on 3 sides going out several miles. One of my landlords was approached by a company from Colorado with this offer. They did not do anything special for the property owner they did work for. My landlord did not take them up,and has since sold the parcel. 

 

So mader praying for your success. Have done the water hauling after billionaire winery drilled 1000 feet and tapped water that fed a spring on my property. The spring had provided household and livestock water since homestead days without any change in flow from flood to drought  years.   

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Atila

Thx for the information

I am sure it will be useful to all since most of us have had or will need to have a well put in at some point.

The more we know the better off we will be when it comes time to pick the spot. 

I had heard stories about places like that in WY where they don't have run a pump only a pressure regulator. 

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And a injector line blew....hopefully cat has the part...

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48 minutes ago, mader656 said:

And a injector line blew....hopefully cat has the part...

Jeepers, what next !

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18 hours ago, ray54 said:

A question for Atilathe.

With as mixed up as the California Coast range is with all the earthquakes and volcanic activity,any way a geologist could pick a spot on a 600 acre parcel without visiting it.  And not any wells drilled with more than 2 to 5 gpm on 3 sides going out several miles. One of my landlords was approached by a company from Colorado with this offer. They did not do anything special for the property owner they did work for. My landlord did not take them up,and has since sold the parcel. 

 

Not exactly sure what the question is?  A company in CO offered to buy (land or water rights?) sight unseen w/ them apparently knowing (re: water rights) that adjoining land had demonstrated low well yield?

If so sounds very odd and wonder if there is more to the story?

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2 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Not exactly sure what the question is?  A company in CO offered to buy (land or water rights?) sight unseen w/ them apparently knowing (re: water rights) that adjoining land had demonstrated low well yield?

If so sounds very odd and wonder if there is more to the story?

They told the owner they could say where to drill without much data from other drilled wells,and as far as I know not even being in the on the ground in the area. I thought is was rather bold. No idea what kind of gpm they were predicting or their fee. So I was asking if this a common thing a legitimate consulting firms would do.

 

Now that I have thought about this a bit more someone came with the thumper trucks doing some kind of study about 30 years ago. Never evan any gossip about why or who was paying.

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The last county commissioner had the REA come out and drill 2 holes he said he was going to put in power poles. This is right by the lake. He lied and put in 2 wells. My daughter was cleaning out a yard and garden well by the road a little after that and the water commissioner came by and saw her and checked it out. She called me i came down and he said i can't let you do that. I said oh but it is ok if the county commissioner drills 2 illegal wells and is running them. This dummy snitched on him and then the commissioner went to a neighbor and tried to buy one of his stock well adjudications for $300 and said i got him in trouble and i would get mine. A call from the neighbor who he told to and i went to his door. He came out red faced and said he had to buy a LAMA share or they were going to pour cement down them. He must actually be related to Hillary 

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7 hours ago, hagan said:

He came out red faced and said he had to buy a LAMA share or they were going to pour cement down them.

It's pretty amazing to me what a big deal water rights are in the west. I can just dig a hole and have all the water I need.

I was looking at property around Rifle, CO and every ad referenced the water issue.

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