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repower a 666 gas to d358 german


MR. IHC
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anyone ever done this, i just picked up a 666 rowcrop tractor with a gas engine that is locked up, i have a d358 that needs a rebuild sitting in my shop, was told a rear plate off a german diesel out of a 544 would work to make it fit, and of course radiator and some other stuff will have to be changed , just wondering if anyone has done this   'jeff

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On 8/11/2020 at 3:33 PM, Shadetreemechanic said:

Howdy I was just wondering if it worked or what had to be changed. Just curious thanks.

got everything to do it but the flywheel, can't find a used one and new are too expensive yet, had **** finding a 11 inch clutch, had to send mine in to hy capacity and have it rebuilt as no 11 inch clutch cores to be found in the country per several manufacturers, still have to change out the ft cover and oil pump as this engine came out of a payloader and the configuration would not fit between rails , luckily i have another d358 donor engine. been stalled on project as i bought a ww2 jeep ive been fixing up for the kids to drive 'jeff

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So ive been working on this some more, i added an oil pump off another d358, and resealed the ft  cover, the construction engine had the oil pump in the base so i had to remove that and install a different #1 main cap as the oil pump injected oil there and didn’t leave room for the tractor oil pan , hoping this works kinda experimenting 

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So i ordered a flywheel off amazon and when i got it the bolts lined up but it appeared too tall , if you placed it on the ground , next to the flywh out of the tractor it sat an inch and a half too high, the 291 crank is flush with the “slip “ and the 358 crank is flush with the “slip” , after some investigation, the 666 bell housing and the 686 are the same part so i would have had to add a spacer plate so my tin and everything else wouldn’t fit, talked with joe Shmitt at redrunrite and he agreed flywheel looked funny so i sent it back 

29FDB2B2-9095-46F0-BCF8-2A3EA661D53C.png

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9 minutes ago, MR. IHC said:

So i ordered a flywheel off amazon and when i got it the bolts lined up but it appeared too tall , if you placed it on the ground , next to the flywh out of the tractor it sat an inch and a half too high, the 291 crank is flush with the “slip “ and the 358 crank is flush with the “slip” , after some investigation, the 666 bell housing and the 686 are the same part so i would have had to add a spacer plate so my tin and everything else wouldn’t fit, talked with joe Shmitt at redrunrite and he agreed flywheel looked funny so i sent it back 

29FDB2B2-9095-46F0-BCF8-2A3EA661D53C.png

anyone have any  info on this? is this flywheel for something else? i'm gonna order one from another company as soon as they credit my account. would love to see pics of a flywheel off a 686 with a d310

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15 hours ago, MR. IHC said:

the construction engine had the oil pump in the base so i had to remove that and install a different #1 main cap

You can't do that.  Caps are installed in a block then line bored.  A cap from one engine won't properly match another engine block unless you line bore it.  This engine is going to eat main bearings now.  

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10 hours ago, J-Mech said:

You can't do that.  Caps are installed in a block then line bored.  A cap from one engine won't properly match another engine block unless you line bore it.  This engine is going to eat main bearings now.  

or lock up

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On 1/15/2021 at 10:00 AM, MR. IHC said:

So ive been working on this some more, i added an oil pump off another d358, and resealed the ft  cover, the construction engine had the oil pump in the base so i had to remove that and install a different #1 main cap as the oil pump injected oil there and didn’t leave room for the tractor oil pan , hoping this works kinda experimenting 

at least you could have checked the clearances with plastigauge, as that will tell some of the story.,... but it wont work! have you tryed to turn the engine over? usually you cant. so you will have to do other experimenting , or do the line bore.

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22 hours ago, rustred said:

at least you could have checked the clearances with plastigauge, as that will tell some of the story.,... but it wont work! have you tryed to turn the engine over? usually you cant. so you will have to do other experimenting , or do the line bore.

I intend to plastiguage it, i am not done, i want to replace the main bearings anyway and will prolly rebuild the engine, one thing at a time

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2 hours ago, MR. IHC said:

I intend to plastiguage it, i am not done, i want to replace the main bearings anyway and will prolly rebuild the engine, one thing at a time

Doesn't matter what you do unless you line bore it.  Absolutely cannot swap main caps between engines.  Like, not even maybe.  You need to change your plans. 

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16 hours ago, MR. IHC said:

I intend to plastiguage it, i am not done, i want to replace the main bearings anyway and will prolly rebuild the engine, one thing at a time

not going to work!! we are telling you you cannot do that. has to be line bored.  the ends on the caps are ground to reduce the circumference and caps are torqued in place then a machine is used to bore or hone out all bores in one straight line. it is a big job.  what i meant by experimenting was if the original cap can be used, with other modifications ?

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Before you people have a hemorrhage, i have been a professional diesel mechanic at a navistar shop for 22 years , so i may actually know a thing or 2 about this, ive been the  top engine guy at the shop since 2008, and have been one of the top at a caterpillar dealership as well, so just calm down, of course im gonna proceed slowly and check things out first, i appreciate the concern , but relax

 

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how would we know that with that post that says you are experimenting? you said you just used a cap off a different engine . did not plastiguage it or even say if it turns over , so we are not wrong in pointing this out.   i dont know of any mechanic's that would just install brg. caps with out checking clearances. sure seams odd. something not adding up, it is just not correct is what i know.

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17 hours ago, MR. IHC said:

Before you people have a hemorrhage, i have been a professional diesel mechanic at a navistar shop for 22 years , so i may actually know a thing or 2 about this, ive been the  top engine guy at the shop since 2008, and have been one of the top at a caterpillar dealership as well, so just calm down, of course im gonna proceed slowly and check things out first, i appreciate the concern , but relax

 

Either your shop is a sad place, or you're full of it.  No way a 22 year professional diesel tech would think they can swap bearing caps between blocks.  That's basic stuff right there.  

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You could get lucky 30 years ago my brother had 2 706s in our shop at the same time for major over haul we believe one of the main caps got switched between those two engines somehow. one tractor had the same main seize up 2 times we then had the block align bored end of problem the other tractor is running to this day without trouble. Both cranks turned freely when the crank was installed never suspected something out of the ordinary. FWIW IH did offer replacement caps at one time and the procedure is in the d361 service manual and I think in some of the D236-282 manuals for installing a NEW cap without line boring the block .

 

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3 hours ago, J-Mech said:

Either your shop is a sad place, or you're full of it.  No way a 22 year professional diesel tech would think they can swap bearing caps between blocks.  That's basic stuff right there.  

Before you people have a hemorrhage, i have been a professional diesel mechanic at a navistar shop for 22 years , so i may actually know a thing or 2 about this, ive been the  top engine guy at the shop since 2008, and have been one of the top at a caterpillar dealership as well, so just calm down, of course im gonna proceed slowly and check things out first, i appreciate the concern , but relax

 

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3 hours ago, R190 said:

You could get lucky 30 years ago my brother had 2 706s in our shop at the same time for major over haul we believe one of the main caps got switched between those two engines somehow. one tractor had the same main seize up 2 times we then had the block align bored end of problem the other tractor is running to this day without trouble. Both cranks turned freely when the crank was installed never suspected something out of the ordinary. FWIW IH did offer replacement caps at one time and the procedure is in the d361 service manual and I think in some of the D236-282 manuals for installing a NEW cap without line boring the block .

 

I have done it before with no issues in C-15 cat engines, also have changed  7 C-15 crankshafts when i worked for the cat dealer , did not line bore, i love it when people are “experts” and have to give their opinion as though  their opinion matters , J mech that means you. You sound real mature , i’m gonna guess a Melanial. Thanks

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10 minutes ago, MR. IHC said:

I have done it before with no issues in C-15 cat engines, also have changed  7 C-15 crankshafts when i worked for the cat dealer , did not line bore, i love it when people are “experts” and have to give their opinion as though  their opinion matters , J mech that means you. You sound real mature , i’m gonna guess a Melanial. Thanks

I'm a gen x-r.  Been a tech for over 20 years. Owned my own shop for 15.  I've changed far more than 7 crankshafts in one brand and model of engine.  I likely have rebuilt 150 motors, maybe more.  Cat, Cummins, Detroit, IH, John Deere, Mack, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Fairbanks, Honda, Kohler, Briggs.... I'm tired of listing them but could go on.  

What gets me are guys who have done one or two things and got away with it out of dumb luck and think they're experts.  This right here is why I was so picky hiring mechanics.  Too many guys who just don't know what they don't know. 

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why would you need to interchange main caps on those c15 cat engine??? i am lost . keep your chit in order. just changing a crank dont mean it needs a line bore.  why would you even say such b.s. any mechanic knows this is not true. seams like your trying to pull the whole sheep over our eyes. about 35 years ago i was overhauling the neighbors  gm grain truck with the 292. the mains were not numbered and got mixed up. so i carefully used plastigage and got them back in order plus numbered them. it ran for many many years. and you saying you will check them later is something i never heard of. and when a mechanic reads something stupid of course he will set a person straight. why have the next guy read this then think ooh that guy did it so i should be able to do it also. the same goes with rod caps! if they get mixed up then you resize them back to spec. have fun.

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I just come on this site to have fun and show my little project , not here for all the bs, i left Facebook ‘cause im done with all the politics, my guy lost, whatever. If you don’t like my post please don’t follow it. Thanks

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1 hour ago, rustred said:

why would you need to interchange main caps on those c15 cat engine??? i am lost . keep your chit in order. just changing a crank dont mean it needs a line bore.  why would you even say such b.s. any mechanic knows this is not true. seams like your trying to pull the whole sheep over our eyes. about 35 years ago i was overhauling the neighbors  gm grain truck with the 292. the mains were not numbered and got mixed up. so i carefully used plastigage and got them back in order plus numbered them. it ran for many many years. and you saying you will check them later is something i never heard of. and when a mechanic reads something stupid of course he will set a person straight. why have the next guy read this then think ooh that guy did it so i should be able to do it also. the same goes with rod caps! if they get mixed up then you resize them back to spec. have fun.

Had a crank break, replaced one, not bs . Get over it

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Just to clear things up, yes line boring is the recommended and or best procedure, and yes when i worked at Cat i had a technical service advisor checking my work, this post is not a dyy on how to do something, i just thought i would share my little project, i am not expressing in any way that this is the best way, I don’t have the time or money to have this engine line bored , if it blows up i will take pics and share a good laugh,  i have no reason to bs anyone that is not my intent. I try to keep my posts “short and sweet “ , apparently this offends people. This is not my intent. Read at your own risk lol! Thanks

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