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1086 hydraulic help


1086lovehate
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Ih 1086 doesnt seam to want to lift a single line hydraulic cylinder. It wont lift a 16' hydra swing mower conditioner. I hooked up my jd 4320 to same moco and it raises it with ease.  I have even tried a 8ft sickle bar mower. But when i change the cylinder with 2 hydraulic lines on the sickle mower it will raise it. It doesnt have any problems with the baler or disc(both machines have 2 line cylinders.) What could i do to fix this problem? Is there a valve that needs to be changed? I took it to a case shop and they said everything was ok. They just changed the hyd filter and oil. 

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Tried all 3. Why does it work on everyother piece of equipment that has 2 hydraulic lines to the cylinder but wont hardly work with a cylinder that only has 1. Such as the mower conditioner. Which only uses one to lift. And gravity to set it down. So when i have to use this tractor to cut, i just have to leave it down. Then when i move to the next field i use a handyman jack to lift up the machine so the tires are off the ground. Then i use the hydraulics to extend the cylinder and place the transport locks. It shouldnt be this way. Like i said the moco works fine with the jd. And even lifting a 8ft sickle mower. Will barely lift it. But i change the cylinder to a 2 line cylinder it will lift it just fine. It would be pretty spendy trying to change the moco to a 2 line system for lifting. (I shouldnt have to, the tractor should just work right) The other cylinder on the moco that has 2 lines for the direction turning works just fine

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6 minutes ago, 1086lovehate said:

Tried all 3. Why does it work on everyother piece of equipment that has 2 hydraulic lines to the cylinder but wont hardly work with a cylinder that only has 1. Such as the mower conditioner. Which only uses one to lift. And gravity to set it down. So when i have to use this tractor to cut, i just have to leave it down. Then when i move to the next field i use a handyman jack to lift up the machine so the tires are off the ground. Then i use the hydraulics to extend the cylinder and place the transport locks. It shouldnt be this way. Like i said the moco works fine with the jd. And even lifting a 8ft sickle mower. Will barely lift it. But i change the cylinder to a 2 line cylinder it will lift it just fine. It would be pretty spendy trying to change the moco to a 2 line system for lifting. (I shouldnt have to, the tractor should just work right) The other cylinder on the moco that has 2 lines for the direction turning works just fine

I cant think of any reason it would do that. Do you have the levers facing out on remote valves?  I hear what your saying but doesnt add up inside the tractor. 

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Yup. Tried everything for the last 5 years you could think of. Has to be inside the tractors hydraulics. I dont understand all the stuff inside the service manual. Is there a valve somewhere that needs changed. Runs my baler gate(2 hyd lines) the baler twine(2 hyd lines)  rake(2 hyd lines)  disc (2 hyd lines)  drill(2 hyd lines)  moco head direction(2 hyd lines)  wont hardly run anything with one hyd line. 

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Reviewing your posts I’m still not sure if you have tried the 1086 on another application that only has one hydraulic hose, as your mower conditioner does... the other implements you mention all have 2 hoses...

If it works fine on a two hose application it should be able to work on the single hose mower conditioner...  you have changed some tips, does that include the one on the mower conditioner hose ?

My old IH haybine only has the single hose to raise it as well, I assume when you push the lever for it to lower by gravity the hydraulic fluid must be forced back to the tractor ?? Hopefully someone can zero in on the likely problem, a real pain to have to raise it using jacks... been there and done it... 

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1 hour ago, bwop2017 said:

1 hose on the cylinder? There should be a return hose of some sort. The oil on the other side of the piston has to go somewhere. 

Single acting. Doesnt have oil on the other side. It comes down by gravity or weight of the machine. They normally have a vent threaded in the other plug hole in cylinder. 

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1 hour ago, bwop2017 said:

1 hose on the cylinder? There should be a return hose of some sort. The oil on the other side of the piston has to go somewhere. 

Lotsa one way cylinders just dump back in to tractor. Tractor valve controls oil either to apply pressure to cylinder or release it back to tractor.

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1 hour ago, 1086lovehate said:

Yup. Tried everything for the last 5 years you could think of. Has to be inside the tractors hydraulics. I dont understand all the stuff inside the service manual. Is there a valve somewhere that needs changed. Runs my baler gate(2 hyd lines) the baler twine(2 hyd lines)  rake(2 hyd lines)  disc (2 hyd lines)  drill(2 hyd lines)  moco head direction(2 hyd lines)  wont hardly run anything with one hyd line. 

How about this. I've rigged up a gauge cheap that a pioneer end threads into. Dont cost much and it's a handy tool to have in the toolbox. How much pressure do you have at the remote valve? How about all 4? I'd like to know this first. 

Or if you dont want to buy a $20 gauge then pull the hose off the cylinder of your machine and see if it squirts oil out. 

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I don't know how your haybine lifts but if it uses a standard lift cylinder just switch it out with a double acting cylinder.My 16 footer lifts with a cylinder on each wheel.But there is no reason it shouldn't lift, it gotta be the tips or male or female outlets.

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Is this tractor the Open Center or Closed Center system?  I can't think of anything that would cause what you describe on the old OC systems.   You move the valve, it blocks the oil, and sends it to the outlet.  

On the closed center systems, I wonder if the "charge" line is not working to demand pump flow.

Have you tried connecting to the "opposite" inlet, IE where pushing forward on the lever would actually raise the unit. (same as swapping hoses on a 2 hose cylinder.)

Actually, I disagree on the tips, sorta.  Almost every problem I've ever had with tips are them not opening to allow return flow back from the cylinder.   So the one hose pressurizes, and the return oil can't escape so it "jams".   The classic "raises 6" and stops".    I suppose a bad enough tip might block pressure, but he says he's changed tips and tried different outlets.  

I would have changed out the cylinder to a double acting long ago!   Probably cheaper that trying to fix the tractor, to be honest!

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Just now, Jeff-C-IL said:

Is this tractor the Open Center or Closed Center system?  I can't think of anything that would cause what you describe on the old OC systems.   You move the valve, it blocks the oil, and sends it to the outlet.  

On the closed center systems, I wonder if the "charge" line is not working to demand pump flow.

Have you tried connecting to the "opposite" inlet, IE where pushing forward on the lever would actually raise the unit. (same as swapping hoses on a 2 hose cylinder.)

Ooh good question. I assumed it was oc. 

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It cant be the tips. Tried multiple tips. Took them off the moco put them on the baler and they work fine. Tried both sides of all three services. You name it i've tried it. I've even rebuilt both cylinders to make sure they wasnt the problem. Tried messing with the lift springs. Finally bought the JD and it lifted fast like it should. But the JD is takeing a crap again and i would rather put the money into the International. 

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44 minutes ago, 1086lovehate said:

1086 with a SN starting with 26101 makes it a open center?

 

Closed center is on newest of them. Usually have colored remote handles, and a filter by the oil pan on left side. You say starting with?? Isnt it the last set of numbers? I'm not looking at a tag in front of me. 

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3 hours ago, Missouri Mule said:

Single acting. Doesnt have oil on the other side. It comes down by gravity or weight of the machine. They normally have a vent threaded in the other plug hole in cylinder. 

I was having a brain fart.

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 In my experience that type of mower conditioners take a lot of pressure to lift, I’ve had the same issues with a couple of my 86 series tractors in the past. 

 You said you took it and had it tested at the dealer, did they say what the readings were?

 It could be your relief valve is getting weak or you have some leak inside that only leaks under extremely high pressure.

 You can do like Missouri Mule said and put a gauge on the hose to see how much pressure is required to lift it with a tractor that has no problem lifting it, and then put it on your 1086 to see what you’re getting. 

 You can also remove the top link cover above the PTO and look inside when you were lifting your mower to see if there is a leak somewhere. 

 

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2 hours ago, Qc.Can.IH man said:

 In my experience that type of mower conditioners take a lot of pressure to lift, I’ve had the same issues with a couple of my 86 series tractors in the past. 

 You said you took it and had it tested at the dealer, did they say what the readings were?

 It could be your relief valve is getting weak or you have some leak inside that only leaks under extremely high pressure.

 You can do like Missouri Mule said and put a gauge on the hose to see how much pressure is required to lift it with a tractor that has no problem lifting it, and then put it on your 1086 to see what you’re getting. 

 You can also remove the top link cover above the PTO and look inside when you were lifting your mower to see if there is a leak somewhere. 

 

Exactly. Until he does that I'm waiting 

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