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Just picked up this 25C for $10,000 hyd. oil getting into the engine oil. I've put about 65 Hrs. on it and it brings the engine up about every 10 hours a gallon

20190816_105044.jpg

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Welcome farmerboy,  Nice looking 'C'

Two possibilities on newer s/n's and one on the early machines.  Main hydraulic pump shaft seal could be the culprit on all TD25C's.  Pump is mounted above the torque converter and drives off of a gear train in the bell housing that is engine oil lubed.

Other possible on later machines is the steering pump which is a piston pump driven by the front gear train on front right side of the engine.  This pump is fed by the hydraulic system also.  I do not know the s/n breaks and an older unit may have been changed over to this.

Earlier units had a small gear pump driven off the front gear train and at the front right side of the engine.  This can be identified by two filters mounted with it.  A small oil tank under the hood, rt side just ahead of the firewall fed this pump, so would not be the cause of hyd oil getting to the engine oil.  This older style could possibly have been modified over the years to be supplied by the hydraulic system, however.  The early ones with the small tank were a bit problematic because a small leak would eventually drain the tank and you would lose steering so some may have been changed.

Good luck with your new to you machine.  TD25C's were great machines in their day.

Dennis

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Nice 25C.

I don't think it would be the oil cooler, since it's engine coolant that cools the oil. You'd have oil in the radiator or coolant in the main frame housing.

The bell housing is "wet" but it is converter oil(from main frame reservoir), not engine oil that's in there. So it could be the rear main seal leaking into the engine.

It could also be the engine mounted pump that runs the hydraulics for the steering, this would be the simplest/cheapest fix.

Good luck

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Thanks to  everyone for there input this is a late model 25C with 75% undercarage  and the engine starts at 0  with no starting fluid. the hydraulic pump has been replaced so the steering pump is suspect. I put a tee in the oil pressure line so I can drain the extra oil down to the correct level on start up and run engine oil in the hyd. system, it only seems to make the oil come up when it sets over night not when is running. 

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Always said the 817B/C engine was one, if not the best starting diesels ever made.

It's strange that it leaks in the engine when it's not running?

If your running 10wt or HyTran in the main frame, be careful that the engine oil doesn't get diluted out. You might have more serious problems arising....

 

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Just out of curiosity crack the fluid tank fills after you have run it.   

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I'm running engine oil in the hydraulic system, when I drain off a gallon from the engine the hydraulic tank is about a gallon low.

is it possible the hydraulic tank is building to much psi. and forcing the oil by the seals on the steering pump?

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MC, I'm just thinking out loud but give it a try, bleed the pressure off at the end of the day and see what happens.  

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MC, Normal for the hydraulic tank to build some pressure during run time.  And due to gravity and psi would pass oil past a bad pump seal.  Normally a pump shaft seal does not see pressure while running.  Pede has good idea to relieve pressure at shut down until the problem is dealt with.  Tank pressure is controlled by the tank vent assembly.  Can't remember normal, maybe 5-10 psi.

Dennis

 

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I'll be running it this weekend, I will give that a try, the vent is next to the fill cap I'm going to tee a gauge into it and let you know what I see.

Thanks for the help Boys

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On 3/3/2020 at 4:32 PM, m.c.farmerboy said:

s 25C for $10,000

You stole that big hunk of gorgeous steel !!

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the man I bought it from  wanted $25,000 for it , but when this oil issue came up he talked to the dealer  and they said the repair could run as high as $15,000 depending on what they find.

so he offered it to me for $10,000. 

Kevin I see you have a MS180, I had one of them new in 1984 those were nice machines

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On 3/4/2020 at 12:05 PM, m.c.farmerboy said:

the hydraulic pump has been replaced so the steering pump is suspect

Check your other things out as well, but a new pump doesn't necessarily mean it won't leak. Been a few years ago so I can't remember if it was a loader or a dozer, but I had to replace all of the pumps that were supposed to be reman or new. The owner had replaced them himself, have no idea where he got them from. He brought it to the dealer I worked at because it actually worked worse after he changed the pumps than it did before. I little diagnosing a flow rating and it was determined the pumps were doing almost nothing. I tore them apart, and almost were all assembled incorrectly, and every single pump had all of the o ring seals inside pinched and blown apart, and shaft seals dented and installed wrong. He was mad that I was telling him his "new" pumps were junk and didn't believe me. He said we sabotaged them. I told him if he wanted to use his machine, it was going to need other new pumps from a reputable place, like the one we got our pumps from, or he wasn't going to be able to use his machine ever. New pumps it was, worked great after that.

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6 hours ago, RBootsMI said:

Check your other things out as well, but a new pump doesn't necessarily mean it won't leak. Been a few years ago so I can't remember if it was a loader or a dozer, but I had to replace all of the pumps that were supposed to be reman or new. The owner had replaced them himself, have no idea where he got them from. He brought it to the dealer I worked at because it actually worked worse after he changed the pumps than it did before. I little diagnosing a flow rating and it was determined the pumps were doing almost nothing. I tore them apart, and almost were all assembled incorrectly, and every single pump had all of the o ring seals inside pinched and blown apart, and shaft seals dented and installed wrong. He was mad that I was telling him his "new" pumps were junk and didn't believe me. He said we sabotaged them. I told him if he wanted to use his machine, it was going to need other new pumps from a reputable place, like the one we got our pumps from, or he wasn't going to be able to use his machine ever. New pumps it was, worked great after that.

the pump was rebuilt by  our dealer, we have  used them for 25 plus years with no problems but anything is possible 

 

14 hours ago, Dmbess09 said:

I have 5 25s and u got a real deal. If u can keep fuel to them you can move mountains of dirt in no time. Fun to run 

I had  a CAT D8K years back , this will out push it hands down

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a steering pump fail this week on 1 of my C tractors. If this is where your leak Is it would be an easy diagnoses and fix if u can just put a seal in your pump. My pump locked up and broke the shaft that drives it. Got it all apart and parts off another unit and was back running the next day. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/9/2020 at 9:10 AM, pede said:

Just out of curiosity crack the fluid tank fills after you have run it.   

so I cracked the cover on the hydraulic tank after 20 min. run time, the pressure about took the cap out of my hand.  I pulled the tank vent installed a "t" with the vent and a gauge

at about high idle  it read about 22 psi, but if I drop the blade fast it reach about 68 psi. and slowly drop to about 15 psi.

When I shut the engine down and dropped the blade the tank would hold about 55 psi. for about 45 min.

I suspect the vent is bad and may be pushing oil by the pump seal, could be the pump seal was bad to begin with

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         I know my 20 always held some pressure, the Komatsu p58 holds a lot, wondering is they are suppose to hold at least some? I have no idea but their are several different vents available, weren't these steel wool filed, some were stone and some just a cap. 

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