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1456 IPTO gear bushing


1958560
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My sons 1456 broke a rocker arm and we knew clutch would slip, so we split it to replace clutch and work on rocker arm since it was on #6. Ipto was worn as usual. After removing it, I see this bushing installed after the inner seal on the ipto gear. Clutch wasn't bad but was oily, making it slip. Rear main seal was a little wet and we replaced the seal and wear sleeve. I have never seen a bushing installed in the gear before. The ID of pto gear was wet, so I'm guessing that oily clutch result of leaking ipto seal. Is there a problem with TA that is pushing too much oil to this seal and someone tried the bushing to take up some clearance and help protect seal? TA works fine, of course we didnt check pressures before disassembly and dump valve tell lite was disconnected and inop. Any guesses? Thanks Robert 

20200210_153942.jpg

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17 hours ago, 1958560 said:

My sons 1456 broke a rocker arm and we knew clutch would slip, so we split it to replace clutch and work on rocker arm since it was on #6. Ipto was worn as usual. After removing it, I see this bushing installed after the inner seal on the ipto gear. Clutch wasn't bad but was oily, making it slip. Rear main seal was a little wet and we replaced the seal and wear sleeve. I have never seen a bushing installed in the gear before. The ID of pto gear was wet, so I'm guessing that oily clutch result of leaking ipto seal. Is there a problem with TA that is pushing too much oil to this seal and someone tried the bushing to take up some clearance and help protect seal? TA works fine, of course we didnt check pressures before disassembly and dump valve tell lite was disconnected and inop. Any guesses? Thanks Robert 

20200210_153942.jpg

All the ones I've seen are needle bearings but 1456 may be different I'm thinking of a totally different tractor my bad  

Edited by ksfarmdude
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So why is that bushing there? Is it for more support for ta input shaft on higher horsepower tractors? I talked to my dealer tech and he had never seen one. So I called Hy Cap and they said it's an aftermarket thing started for pulling tractors and isnt necessary. It's going together without the bushing

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I've had to put two seals on a few older units to keep them from leaking out the IPTO gear.  Even with all new parts, they still leaked.  Only had to do it a few times, but I've taken several apart with two seals in them. 

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I've used a few of these oil slingers on the input shaft. Eventually the TA will need to be replaced if that bushing is loose.

https://www.batescorp.com/8301011-oil-slinger-ta-shafts.html

 

That engine doesn't normally have rocker arm issues. Check out the camshaft and also the front dampener pulley. 

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If you are running a Non TA tractor you will want the bushing in there. It keeps the 11 spline input shaft from  moving out of center and will save or at least add life to the small inner oil seal. Was not an optional piece on the non TA tractors!  On a TA tractor the bushing is more to keep the IPTO shaft from moving out of center  (and it is a different ID bushing) and it is marketed by Ag Parts.  It helps to save both seals if you are using tractor on heavy pto loads.

Can't quite make out the picture, but is the large flat washer that centers the bearing on that shaft damaged? Looks odd on the inner diameter behind the teeth.

ed

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On 2/12/2020 at 9:10 PM, Ed Leaman said:

If you are running a Non TA tractor you will want the bushing in there. It keeps the 11 spline input shaft from  moving out of center and will save or at least add life to the small inner oil seal. Was not an optional piece on the non TA tractors!  On a TA tractor the bushing is more to keep the IPTO shaft from moving out of center  (and it is a different ID bushing) and it is marketed by Ag Parts.  It helps to save both seals if you are using tractor on heavy pto loads.

Can't quite make out the picture, but is the large flat washer that centers the bearing on that shaft damaged? Looks odd on the inner diameter behind the teeth.

ed

This is a TA tractor that will operate a round bale processor and an 18' haybine. Washer looked good. It's back together now, planning on using it this afternoon on bale processor. Was -22° yesterday morning so I left the 5288 on the processor, the heater and cab is a lot better. Thanks for the info, if we have seal trouble we'll have to add the bushing. Do you know the measurement for the depth of the inner seal? I have a socket marked for the depth of the old seal, assuming it was installed correctly. I cant find it in my service manual, just that there is a special tool to set the seal, thanks

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I have seen broken rocker arm issues a few times and both on a 1456.

The cause I found was a valve guide loose in the head.

When the engine is running, the valve guide works it's way up in the head.

When it gets to a certain point, it prevents the valve from opening all the way and something has to give.

The first to go seems to always be the rocker arm and not the push rod.

The ones I seen was always #6 cylinder.

May be the little bit more heat on that end of the block.

If this is the 2nd or more broken rockers, I would pull the head and find out.

 

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5 hours ago, Diesel Doctor said:

I have seen broken rocker arm issues a few times and both on a 1456.

The cause I found was a valve guide loose in the head.

When the engine is running, the valve guide works it's way up in the head.

When it gets to a certain point, it prevents the valve from opening all the way and something has to give.

The first to go seems to always be the rocker arm and not the push rod.

The ones I seen was always #6 cylinder.

May be the little bit more heat on that end of the block.

If this is the 2nd or more broken rockers, I would pull the head and find out.

 

Son just purchased tractor in November from a guy I have bought equipment from before. He didnt mention anything about valve train issues, just that he had replaced mcv pump a couple of times since he got it in late 90s and that the clutch was weak. If it happens again we'll definitely check head. Couldn't see that guide was moved in the head, stem seals looked same height from cylinder to cylinder. There were 2 different styles of rockers on it however. 

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