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6 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

The Ideology of Climate Change Denial in the United States

Abstract

The concerted effort to discredit the scientific consensus over man-made global warming has been continuing for two decades in the United States, and shows no sign of weakening. It is very often described as an attempt on the part of corporate America, most notably the fossil fuel industries, to hinder governmental regulations on their activities. While emphasising this dimension of the US climate denial movement, this article also aims to show the complexity of the movement, rather than the mere defense of the narrowly-defined and short-term economic interests of the oil and gas industries, by shedding light on two additional factors which have been instrumental in blocking strong climate action. First, climate denial stems from the strong ideological commitment of small-government conservatives and libertarians to laisser-faire and their strong opposition to regulation. Second, in order to disarm their opponents, US climate deniers often rest their case on the defense of the American way of life, defined by high consumption and ever-expanding material prosperity. It is the contention of this article, therefore, that the US climate denial movement is best understood as a combination of these three trends.

It is a global redistribution of wealth scheme.  Whoever figured out how to politicize the weather and use it to further their left wing agenda is the real genius. Anyone believing in man made climate change needs to examine the word Hubris.  We can't control the climate, we can't even reliably predict what the weather is going to be tomorrow.  What we could do, if truth were more important than agenda, is accept that the "climate" is unpredictable and always changing, and build infrastructure to mitigate whatever the weather is outside. But, "climate" activists are against that also because that is not the reason they are playing this game

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6 hours ago, Atilathehun99 said:

Exactly.  I've been saying this for years....follow the money.

The ramification of this that many, including here, fail to consider is that this is a two-sided coin.  While accusing those that acknowledge CC on potential monetary gain for transitioning to sustainable energy sources they totally ignore the immense guaranteed loss of wealth and investment that would be incurred by those already driving the fossil fuel fed economy.

 

So you admit that people in the "sustainable" energy game have made fortunes off the Government and have a real monetary interest to see that this particular way of thinking continues?

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The issue I don't understand is why has the EPA forced diesel engine MFG company to comply with all the emissions updates Tier 1 -Tier4 final. A large part of my equipment is tier 3-4 why does our state and others continue to claim how fitly these engines are and we must have a carbon tax to slow the usage of fossil fuels. What was the purpose of tier 4 engines with exhaust filters? The last time I checked Deere/C-IH/Cat, or ???  doesn't make any large sized equipment that doesn't burn fuel so what options are there for people like myself that grow food items to feed the masses ? None, I have to burn fuel and these people know it so lets screw that  farmer out of his earnings.  I would consider it stupid to bite the hand that feeds you.       You know the old saying about fixing stupid.

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I’ll believe in global warming when al gore and all them clowns live in a tent and walk or ride a horse to their climate meetings instead of flying in a personal jet

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2 hours ago, 806 man said:

The issue I don't understand is why has the EPA forced diesel engine MFG company to comply with all the emissions updates Tier 1 -Tier4 final. A large part of my equipment is tier 3-4 why does our state and others continue to claim how fitly these engines are and we must have a carbon tax to slow the usage of fossil fuels. What was the purpose of tier 4 engines with exhaust filters? The last time I checked Deere/C-IH/Cat, or ???  doesn't make any large sized equipment that doesn't burn fuel so what options are there for people like myself that grow food items to feed the masses ? None, I have to burn fuel and these people know it so lets screw that  farmer out of his earnings.  I would consider it stupid to bite the hand that feeds you.       You know the old saying about fixing stupid.

The EPA wants to see the IC engine gone. Kinda hard to blame a gas engine when there is nothing to see. But a diesel blowing black smoke? People can see that so it's an easy target because it's east to convince the masses. That's why they keep pushing the envelope on diesels. They want the manufacturers to stop making them.

 

Rick

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1 hour ago, oldtanker said:

The EPA wants to see the IC engine gone. Kinda hard to blame a gas engine when there is nothing to see. But a diesel blowing black smoke? People can see that so it's an easy target because it's east to convince the masses. That's why they keep pushing the envelope on diesels. They want the manufacturers to stop making them.

 

Rick

I've never witnessed a Tier 4 final engine blowing black smoke unless there is a failure of some sorts.  Look in the stack next time a T-4 truck goes by there is very little soot inside the stack just sparkly chrome unless there is EGR delete done to it. Back in the 50's till about mid 90's I would agree with your black smoke comment. I do happen to own a 77 pete with a Cat 1693 TA 😁 under the hood.  With the Electronic engines came better timing, 26k pressurized injectors which have fixed most issues. Currently It's somebody's pipe dream to think there is a fuel source that will deliver the same H.P. result as diesel. I don't plan on going back to using horses for my HP.on the farm, I'm to old for that horse sh3t.

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The scientific consensus that this is how the Mississippi was formed fails to mention which white men were around then to melt the glaciers.

http://www.greatriver.com/Ice_Age/glacier.htm

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Re "climate change " and the fires in Oz

“The Bush Fire” by Henry Lawson 1905.

“Never happened before eh”?  Someone forgot to tell Henry about "climate change"

A good reference to this with words is

https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-bush-fire/

Cheers

Ian

Words to that - I'll handle any translation problems

The Bush Fire

Henry Lawson, 1905

Ah, better the thud of the deadly gun, and the crash of the bursting shell,
Than the terrible silence where drought is fought out there in the western ****;
And better the rattle of rifles near, or the thunder on deck at sea,
Than the sound — most hellish of all to hear — of a fire where it should not be.

On the runs to the west of the Dingo Scrubs there was drought, and ruin, and death,
And the sandstorm came from the dread north-east with the blast of a furnace-breath;
Till at last one day, at the fierce sunrise, a boundary-rider woke,
And saw, in the place of the distant haze, a curtain of light blue smoke.

There is saddling-up by the cockey’s hut, and out in the station yard,
And away to the north, north-east, north-west, the bushmen are riding hard.
The pickets are out and many a scout, and many a mulga wire,
While Bill and Jim, with their faces grim, are riding to meet the fire.

It roars for days in the hopeless scrubs, and across, where the ground seems bare,
With a cackle and hiss, like the hissing of snakes, the fire is travelling there;
Till at last, exhausted by sleeplessness, and the terrible toil and heat,
The squatter is crying, ‘My God! the wool!’ and the farmer, ‘My God! the wheat!’

But there comes a drunkard (who reels as he rides), with the news from the roadside pub: —
‘Pat Murphy — the cockey — cut off by the fire! — way back in the Dingo Scrub!’
‘Let the wheat and the woolshed go to — — ‘ Well, they do as each great heart bids;
They are riding a race for the Dingo Scrub — for Pat and his wife and kids.

And who is leading the race with death? An ill-matched three, you’ll allow;
Flash Jim the breaker and Boozing Bill (who is riding steadily now),
And Constable Dunn, of the Mounted Police, is riding between the two
(He wants Flash Jim, but the job can wait till they get the Murphys through).

As they strike the track through the blazing scrub, the trooper is heard to shout:
‘We’ll take them on to the Two-mile Tank, if we cannot bring them out!’
A half-mile more, and the rest rein back, retreating, half-choked, halfblind;
And the three are gone from the sight of men, and the bush fire roars behind.

The Bushman wiped the tears of smoke, and like Bushmen wept and swore;
‘Poor Bill will be wanting his drink to-night as never he did before.
‘And Dunn was the best in the whole damned force!’ says a client of Dunn’s, with pride;
I reckon he’ll serve his summons on Jim — when they get to the other side.

It is daylight again, and the fire is past, and the black scrub silent and grim,
Except for the blaze of an old dead tree, or the crash of a falling limb;
And the Bushmen are riding again on the run, with hearts and with eyes that fill,
To look for the bodies of Constable Dunn, Flash Jim, and Boozing Bill.

They are found in the mud of the Two-mile Tank, where a fiend might scarce survive,
But the Bushmen gather from words they hear that the bodies are much alive.
There is Swearing Pat, with his grey beard singed, and his language of lurid hue,
And his tough old wife, and his half-baked kids, and the three who dragged them through.

Old Pat is deploring his burnt-out home, and his wife the climate warm;
And Jim the loss of his favourite horse, and Dunn his uniform;
And Boozing Bill, with a raging thirst, is cursing the Dingo Scrub —
He’ll only ask for the loan of a flask and a lift to the nearest pub.

Flash Jim the Breaker is lying low — blue-paper is after him,
And Dunn, the trooper, is riding his rounds with a blind eye out for Jim,
And Boozing Bill is fighting D.Ts. in the township of Sudden Jerk —
When they’re wanted again in the Dingo Scrubs, they’ll be there to do the work.

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12 hours ago, 806 man said:

I've never witnessed a Tier 4 final engine blowing black smoke unless there is a failure of some sorts.  Look in the stack next time a T-4 truck goes by there is very little soot inside the stack just sparkly chrome unless there is EGR delete done to it. Back in the 50's till about mid 90's I would agree with your black smoke comment. I do happen to own a 77 pete with a Cat 1693 TA 😁 under the hood.  With the Electronic engines came better timing, 26k pressurized injectors which have fixed most issues. Currently It's somebody's pipe dream to think there is a fuel source that will deliver the same H.P. result as diesel. I don't plan on going back to using horses for my HP.on the farm, I'm to old for that horse sh3t.

Maybe not tier 4 engines but look up rolling coal on you tube. I have a couple of coworkers that giggle like crazy watching bicyclists and other vehicles disapear in a cloud of black smoke from diesel trucks with chrome stacks the size of garbage cans. That mentality does not help with the public, espec in areas with a high percentage of tree huggers. And yes im sure the trucks have been played with just so their owners can make such videos.

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11 hours ago, 806 man said:

I've never witnessed a Tier 4 final engine blowing black smoke unless there is a failure of some sorts.  Look in the stack next time a T-4 truck goes by there is very little soot inside the stack just sparkly chrome unless there is EGR delete done to it. Back in the 50's till about mid 90's I would agree with your black smoke comment. I do happen to own a 77 pete with a Cat 1693 TA 😁 under the hood.  With the Electronic engines came better timing, 26k pressurized injectors which have fixed most issues. Currently It's somebody's pipe dream to think there is a fuel source that will deliver the same H.P. result as diesel. I don't plan on going back to using horses for my HP.on the farm, I'm to old for that horse sh3t.

Very true. And I'me not saying that some things didn't force some improvements.

 But the black smoke thing is why they went after diesels in the first place. When the EPA had people testify in front of congress to justify the TIER IV requirements they stated over and over "many children died in the 50's and early 60's due to diesel particulate matter in the air". You know back when almost all medium plus some heavy trucks were gas, most farm tractors were gas, there were no diesel pickups and even some construction equipment like light dozers, skip loaders/backhoes, some payloaders and graders were still gassers along with almost all school buses. They had not even one death certificate that had the word diesel on it and no autopsy reports at all. But they spent a lot of time covering the black smoke issue. That's because people can see it in their minds. But you have to understand that DEF and filters were not even a reality at the time. It was one of the reasons that they had hearings. The EPA told congress "If you allow us to enforce the TIER IV rules someone will invent it".

Trust me. The EPA would love to be able to outlaw all fossil fuels. They care nothing about the economy or human lives for that matter. Some member of the EPA have been known to state "we may have to eliminate some human life to protect the environment". What the EPA wants is all humans living in cities that are 100% powered by non fossil fuel electric power. All foods produced by hydronic farming too with no meat consumption. In fact one EPA official claimed a few years back that the entire population of the US should move to TX leaving the rest of the US to nature.

 

Rick

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11 hours ago, Steve C. said:

The scientific consensus that this is how the Mississippi was formed fails to mention which white men were around then to melt the glaciers.

http://www.greatriver.com/Ice_Age/glacier.htm

I keep telling people that. Where I live at (not to far from the head waters of the Mississippi) they figure was under 3-5 miles of ice at one time.

Rick

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17 hours ago, yellowrosefarm said:

It is a global redistribution of wealth scheme.  Whoever figured out how to politicize the weather and use it to further their left wing agenda is the real genius. Anyone believing in man made climate change needs to examine the word Hubris.  We can't control the climate, we can't even reliably predict what the weather is going to be tomorrow.  What we could do, if truth were more important than agenda, is accept that the "climate" is unpredictable and always changing, and build infrastructure to mitigate whatever the weather is outside. But, "climate" activists are against that also because that is not the reason they are playing this game

Its also about power, fossil fuels has bring more prosperety and also enable for people to move faster ant further what increase thier job prospects. The same people who are in favor off gun controll and against free speech are also pushing the climate change hoax.

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On 1/10/2020 at 3:08 AM, iowaboy1965 said:

Maybe not tier 4 engines but look up rolling coal on you tube. I have a couple of coworkers that giggle like crazy watching bicyclists and other vehicles disapear in a cloud of black smoke from diesel trucks with chrome stacks the size of garbage cans. That mentality does not help with the public, espec in areas with a high percentage of tree huggers. And yes im sure the trucks have been played with just so their owners can make such videos.

I would agree with your comment, This is the EGR delete I mentioned which removes all emission control on engines which allows black smoke which is another reason the EPA is going after the mfg of these products. I'm somewhat surprised people advertise their EGR products on the web. The EPA doesn't go easy on them when caught.

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Re the pollution side - a while back someone posted figures on reduction in diesel pollution vs cost.  If you graph that the best bang for buck was about Tier 2

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The politicians of today know the same thing that the high priests of ancient empires knew.  That is using naturally occurring events to frighten the population to get them to pay more tribute to the King.  The Egyptians, Incas, Aztecs of long ago had knowledge of celestial workings and could predict eclipses.  These were used to terrify the population, "follow us, pay more tribute and we will make the sun come back".  It's as old as the human race.

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The 4th World Wilderness Congress convened in September, 1987 (Denver and Estes Park, Colorado, United States) with 2,000 delegates from 64 countries. Proposed the establishment of a world conservation bank, or fund, the first call for new conservation finance mechanisms, which eventually led to the $1.1 billion Global Environment Facility.

That was pretty much the beginning of the modern global warming/climate change scam.

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I was in high school in 1970, a science teacher made sure we knew a about "Earth Day" coming up that spring. By 76 or 77 in college and climate change was being promoter,😉 but they thought we would freeze.🤣 By the time I finished in 79 global warming was the worry.

😉 But after Al Gore invented the www we have all fried in ****. 🤣 As they all could tell every one how bad it was getting. But it sure has been a big help to Al's bank account. But hay never waste a good chance to felce people when they are willing to just give you money.🤣

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And we're supposed to bankrupt ourselves to reduce carbon emissions when volcanoes are blowing all over the world.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/01/michael-snyder/why-are-volcanoes-all-over-the-globe-suddenly-shooting-giant-clouds-of-ash-miles-into-the-air/

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9 hours ago, ray54 said:

I was in high school in 1970, a science teacher made sure we knew a about "Earth Day" coming up that spring. By 76 or 77 in college and climate change was being promoter,😉 but they thought we would freeze.🤣 By the time I finished in 79 global warming was the worry.

😉 But after Al Gore invented the www we have all fried in ****. 🤣 As they all could tell every one how bad it was getting. But it sure has been a big help to Al's bank account. But hay never waste a good chance to felce people when they are willing to just give you money.🤣

Yes, I was a bit too young to be scared by the nuclear war threat of the 1950s but we were more concerned by the late sixties with the coming ice age. Then the energy crisis had us worried the world was running out of fuel. And somewhere in there air, water, and just pollution in general was the great cause that people were on about. This climate change thing has probably been the biggest one yet and has converted a lot of followers. 

We already have the carbon tax here as of last year. Our farm fuel is exempt, but I'm paying it on my electric and gas bills. To add insult to injury, the federal govt charges GST (gouge and screw tax) on top of the carbon tax. Thats another 5%. Tax on tax. And how does it help? It takes fuel to produce a crop, and this year add the expense of drying all the damp grain. And at -32 degrees this morning I don't see myself cutting back much on the gas bill to keep my home heated. 

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The first time I ever heard of global warming I was walking beans in July 1992 listening to a transistor radio and Rush Limbaugh talked about it. I suppose maybe he brought it up because of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio do Janeiro. R-12 Freon had to go. 

Complying with the Montreal Protocol, its manufacture was banned in developed countries (non-article 5 countries) in 1996, and developing countries (article 5 countries) in 2010 due to concerns about its damaging effect on the ozone layer. 

The Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (a protocol to the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer) is an international treaty designed to protect the ozone layer by phasing out the production of numerous substances that are responsible for ozone depletion. It was agreed on 16 September 1987, and entered into force on 26 August 1989, following a first meeting in Helsinki, May 1989.

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20 hours ago, lightninboy said:

The first time I ever heard of global warming I was walking beans in July 1992 listening to a transistor radio and Rush Limbaugh talked about it. I suppose maybe he brought it up because of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio do Janeiro. R-12 Freon had to go. 

Complying with the Montreal Protocol, its manufacture was banned in developed countries (non-article 5 countries) in 1996, and developing countries (article 5 countries) in 2010 due to concerns about its damaging effect on the ozone layer. 

The Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (a protocol to the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer) is an international treaty designed to protect the ozone layer by phasing out the production of numerous substances that are responsible for ozone depletion. It was agreed on 16 September 1987, and entered into force on 26 August 1989, following a first meeting in Helsinki, May 1989.

See it works no R12 no hole in the ozone. lol,lol

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I have put lots of smoke and sparks in the atmosphere since 1975 so I guess you can blame me for the climate change. 

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On 1/8/2020 at 9:34 AM, Atilathehun99 said:

Ostrich.jpg

So if you believe in climate change do you still farm with tractors that burn fossil fuel? Do you still use energy that is still partially produced by fossil fuel? Do you use tires that are produced by fossil fuel? If you believe why Haven’t you gave up all things that cause it? Me , I don’t use straws, I don’t don’t Dump oil in the ground, I don’t waste energy, I recycle everything. What I don’t understand is that why the people that believe in climate change haven’t gave up all the things that caused it? Does that make them hypocrites?

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