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IH OAK

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has anyone ever heard of a hydrostatic car? I know the preus has a cvt but I have never heard of a hydro. at one time I thought of getting a 1990's Ford Fiesta and swapping in a Kubota 3 cyl. diesel and a hyd. pump and orbit motor. is it doable or just a crazy idea?

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Hydro’s are terribly inefficient transmissions. The variable speed is the only thing that makes them advantageous to use. Bad idea in a car IMHO. You would be better off with the original transmission and the Kubota. 

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Dad bought a brand new '78 Fiesta to run the 35 miles to/from work. After a long string of worn-out cars like a '63 Dodge Dart 225 slant 6 push-button auto trans that only got 17-18 mpg, or a '66 Buick Skylark, 198 cid V-6 and Powerglide,  comfy ride and about 15-16 mpg,  and a '66 4-door Impala 250-6 Powerglide and 14 mpg. The Fiesta would get 40 mpg from the little 1.6 L German 4 cyl and 4 spd manual,  but it was a blast to drive fast so mid-30's was normal mpg. Dad ran that thing well over 100,000 miles. Bought an early Ford Escort wagon not near as fun or as good mpg.

Hydrostatic drives are not efficient, create lots of heat, heat takes work, and work costs gas. But hydro's work great in variable speed jobs like combining, baling, loader work, mowing lawns, things that change direction frequently.  But they do allow you to throttle down and increase the speed ratio lever creating an over-drive. Won't be as efficient as a gear type transmission but it helps, or as fast as the engine wide open.

The little Sunstrand 15-U hydro's used in Cub Cadets built by IH were amazingly tough, only thing they wouldn't tolerate was being pushed or pulled for more than a few feet at any speed above a very slow walk.  Sundstrand made larger versions that could be mated to a larger engine and propel a larger vehicle.  

Actually engineers are finding a diesel electric drive train like locomotives use is very efficient. LaTourne-Westinghouse powered lots of big heavy construction equipment that way 60-70 years ago and that transmission design is making a comeback. Constant speed diesel running a generator and a DC motor in each wheel.

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Worked in a cub cadet.  Probably why the little 12.5 HP Kohler burned as much fuel as a 105 HP Nissan Versa.

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IMO, any automatic transmission is a "semi-hydro" already.   A torque converter is really nothing more than a finned hydraulic pump and motor combination built into the same enclosure.  The engine spins the impeller "pump", which which moves the oil, which pushes on the "motor" fins....etc.    Then you have the various gears behind it.

And of course, the loss in efficiency of any "hydro" transmission coupling is why automatic transmissions get poorer mileage than manuals. 

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thanks. I gues it was a crazy idea anyway.

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Okay. I just got another idea. How about a CVT? Or what about a CVT in a semi?🤔

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they seem to work well in cars - NISSAN, SUBARU, FORD, are three i know of that use them and my wife drives a suby. My brother in law ( her brother )  drives trucks for a local company and they have moved 90% of their fleet to Automatics over manuals and have reduced their maint costs so much they let their mechanic go and just have a local shop do their regular service interval stuff, no more driveline issues, no more clutches, no more bearings, no more rearend, totally a new philosophy that is working well. He hauls Rock, Lime, Manure, Asphalt, Grain, whatever they get a contract to haul. He says he likes them just wishes he had about 100 more hp 😉

 

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I think the preus has a CVT as well.

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Another trucking company based in Davenport, Iowa switched to auto trans behind big V-6 Detroits, 6V-92's. This was about 1983.  Better mpg,  less repairs. Gosh awful slow trucks!  They ran mostly 2-man teams.

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Automatics in ANYTHING is junk! expensive to keep operating, NO fuel mileage, robs power, no guts ,etc.., etc.

I walked off my job of driving semis when they got rid of the last 10-speed and told me I had to drive an automatic!  I have an explorer and a F-350 both automatics, both junk, neither will shift right, ---Well, you get the picture! lol!!!

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Plenty of automatics out there that work just fine.....

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6 hours ago, SONNY said:

Automatics in ANYTHING is junk! expensive to keep operating, NO fuel mileage, robs power, no guts ,etc.., etc.

I walked off my job of driving semis when they got rid of the last 10-speed and told me I had to drive an automatic!  I have an explorer and a F-350 both automatics, both junk, neither will shift right, ---Well, you get the picture! lol!!!

Those aren’t automatics in the big trucks although Allison recently introduced one. They are automated manual transmissions same as ones that had a stick jus t shifted by the computer now, they still have a clutch in them just of centrifugal style now.

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On 1/7/2020 at 12:27 PM, IH OAK said:

Okay. I just got another idea. How about a CVT? Or what about a CVT in a semi?🤔

A CVT would absolutely suck in a semi. 

Custom manure hauler had fendt tractors with the CVT. I pulled over and let him buy when we were going to the same field. He went down through the dip. I caught up with him going up the second side before he got to the fields. I had went down the hill partway with the TA in the low side as I forgot it was there . Oh and what tractor I had on the seed tender was the ................ (drumroll please) 1566 that everyone and their cousins hate because they are slow on the road

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On 1/8/2020 at 12:40 PM, IH OAK said:

I think the preus has a CVT as well.

Subaru’s has a cvt, I guess i thought Prius had dc electric motors more like a modern locomotive would have, but I have no basis for that assumption. 

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49 minutes ago, vtfireman85 said:

Subaru’s has a cvt, I guess i thought Prius had dc electric motors more like a modern locomotive would have, but I have no basis for that assumption. 

I was under the same assumption for some reason.

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13 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

I was under the same assumption for some reason.

A guy on the fire department says they have 2 AC motors and a CVT, but offered no more explanation, he’s a mechanic for Toyota and specializes in hybrids, I’ll ask for more detail when I see him 

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3 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

A guy on the fire department says they have 2 AC motors and a CVT, but offered no more explanation, he’s a mechanic for Toyota and specializes in hybrids, I’ll ask for more detail when I see him 

A Prius can be driven at low speeds on battery only driving the wheel motors, at moderate speeds on gasoline only driving through the CVT charging the battery IF there is an excess of gasoline power available, or a combination of battery power and electric power in “high power demand” scenarios.

The latest version of Prius is eAWD, which I believe is electric All Wheel Drive by adding electric motors to the rear wheels.  It would seem like a slick setup for adding AWD without adding much in the way of drivetrain.

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Individual Electric drive to all 4 wheels is a great idea IF..... things like: the electric motor weight can be kept low enough, the drivelines from the motors to the wheels are simple, etc. 

I used to think that they should just build the motor right into the rim/drum....then I realized electric motors are HEAVY.... that much unsprung weight on the tire/rim would destroy itself after a few potholes.

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On a tangent

Great old dairyman/equip dealer had a guy in Canada do his idea few years ago.  He sold them a few vermeer tedders and one day as they visited they were opining about a new feed truck.  They were going to make their own and were split between hydo drive for mixer or gear driven.  He goes and suggest both.  Wth?...they look at him.  He gives them the idea of hooking the trans of truck to the mixer.  Now you have 13sp to mix dif loads at based on size/ingredients.  Then off the pto run big pump to huge motor bolted to last drive line.  Then you have infinite speeds for unloading.  They didnt go down the road so 30 35 mph(iirc) speed was fine.  Came back 3 4 months later and there it was....the built it and loved it.  Big Loewan on a T800 with hydro drive and multi speed gear box for mixer.

Fwiw....AT is awesome.  Like my IH buddy around the corner says..."my a/t truck picks gears better than I ever did frankly"

Local ready mix plant got 3 new Ally trucks.  Driver says he loves it.  Same mpg and just nice to operate.  Custom chopper guy next rd over has 3 fl80 at trucks and a few 450hp 18sp class 8.  Says the little fl80s always get to the field 1st.  Just push petal.

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8 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

On a tangent

Great old dairyman/equip dealer had a guy in Canada do his idea few years ago.  He sold them a few vermeer tedders and one day as they visited they were opining about a new feed truck.  They were going to make their own and were split between hydo drive for mixer or gear driven.  He goes and suggest both.  Wth?...they look at him.  He gives them the idea of hooking the trans of truck to the mixer.  Now you have 13sp to mix dif loads at based on size/ingredients.  Then off the pto run big pump to huge motor bolted to last drive line.  Then you have infinite speeds for unloading.  They didnt go down the road so 30 35 mph(iirc) speed was fine.  Came back 3 4 months later and there it was....the built it and loved it.  Big Loewan on a T800 with hydro drive and multi speed gear box for mixer.

Fwiw....AT is awesome.  Like my IH buddy around the corner says..."my a/t truck picks gears better than I ever did frankly"

Local ready mix plant got 3 new Ally trucks.  Driver says he loves it.  Same mpg and just nice to operate.  Custom chopper guy next rd over has 3 fl80 at trucks and a few 450hp 18sp class 8.  Says the little fl80s always get to the field 1st.  Just push petal.

my BIL that drives daily drives several ATs in their various trucks, he said the loves them and much lower maint/issues for all the trucks. The only complaint he had is when loading/unloading in soft ground the ATs do not have the LO LO creeper type gears and he said he does miss that from time to time in certain situations. 

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My brothers drive truck hauling grapes and say AT's are the stupidest ever. We are a manual trans, non computer controlled etc. family.

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With the wet crappy fall we had the only trucks we ended up having to pull out were the manual trans ones, the automated ones walked right away.

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