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dhutch

Opinion on TD-15C Trans clutch discs

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I'm in the middle of rebuilding the trans for one of my -15C's. I'm looking for thoughts on replacing the clutch fiber discs since this is so involved. From what I can find, a new disc is .062 thick, my manual says minimum wear is .050. I've measured most of my disc in several places per disc and have an average thickness of .057, about half worn. I'll be using this machine in my part time business and want it right. Should I spend the extra money and replace all 52 disc or let them run?

Thanks in advance

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Lots of views so far, but no thoughts from anyone??

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52 discs @ how much $ each would probably help me decide , Also if i plan on keeping machine forever I would replace

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short answer you may be looking for....spec tucked deep in manual..x?

maybe replace 25 % for 30% overall wear

some of theses in actuality only require x stack height..? if feasible replace a balanced number of the thinnest most damaged ,so total stack height is more than you have now >80% + of max.

assuming there are metal dividers also ,replace a few of the worst to get the stack,

on dry type we go short or long a few to = so all are pared and drive ends start stop factory.

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Thanks for the responses. 

I've found the disc for around $11 each. Dealer wants $52 each, not doing that. For $11 each, I'm considering it, especially since I plan on keeping the machine for a while.

Disc are 30% - 40% worn, so not sure its worth replacing them. Guess thats why I'm on the fence over it. Already putting enough money into the machine to get it going.

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dhutch,  If the discs have decent tread, good internal splines and are not warped or burnt I would use them.  We seldom took the time to measure them when I was in the dealer trans shop.  With good oil and good pressures (lub) they will last a long time.  I seldom saw worn out discs.  Usually a burnt pack do to something besides wear.  Only an opinion.  You just need to do what satisfies you.  It's a big job to go into one of these.  Keep us posted.  Happy New Year.

Dennis

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Dennis,

Thanks for the response, that's what I was wondering was how much longer these would last. The teeth look good, just a job to get all the way to them as you mentioned.

Any tricks or tips to putting it all back together? I seem to remember someone mentioning being careful with the piston seals when doing them. 

I'm replacing all bearings since it was run for a while after the pinion bearing came apart; lots of metal particles everywhere.

I'm going to rebuild the torque convertor while its out, throw a root rake on it and get after it, hopefully soon. 

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dhutch,

Only thing weird about assy of the piston I can think of right now is the size of the o ring that goes on the separator plate.  The diameter of the o ring is larger than the separator plate and needs to be fed into the piston with your fingers while keeping it in it's groove as you push the piston down over it with your hands.  It is normal that it appears oversize.  Test the activation of the clutch assemblies with air before you hid them in the housing.  They should activate with normal shop air pressure.  With a pinion bearing failure, were you able to save the ring and pinion?  Probably pretty lucky if you did.  There is some shimming involved on the pinion and reverse shaft.  Your book will explain that.  If you have any questions as you go, just fire away.  I'll help if I can.

Dennis

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I would be inclined to replace them,         once they get thin,     they can flake off

 

these are out of a Dresser 530 loader

hough friction discs.jpg

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I always went by the metal disks as long as the fiber ones looked good, if the metal had blued then all had been hot and slipping. The other as mentioned internal splines, I've had those get so bad it causes a hesitation in the shift, and they don't have to be to bad for that. Yes, that oring can be a complain, have found it easier to warm it in hot oil, not much just enough to make it a bit more pliable. I also need to mention the sealing rings, replace those if you can get them, they were never to expensive and a known failure point. Not sure if the 15 has a bolted on tail shaft on one of the clutch packs, back side of the trans, I believe it houses one of the sealing rings but also 2 little orings, pay careful attention to those, it's not fun to pull the tranny for 2 $.50 orings.    

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Pede,

I was hoping you would weigh in at some point. Thanks for the info. I havent noticed any bluing on the steels, they all look good. I'll look closer at the teeth as I didnt pay much attention to them when pulling it apart. Everything needs a good cleaning now and I'll check it all out really good. 

Thanks for the tips on the o-ring and sealing rings. I broke down and bought the kit that has all of the soft parts, it should have everything in it. 

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We have a 1987 175C and have always wondered if kits or parts were available for the transmission or the torque converter.  I think the 175C and the 15C have the same transmission.  I see where you have ordered a transmission kit for yours.  So far, the transmission in our 175C has been bullet proof; but, you never know.  Was just curious where you purchased your parts.  Thanks.....

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Mike,

I found the kit on Ebay, 604741C93 KIT - IH / DRESSER / KOMATSU - LIUGONG - TD15B / TD15C / 175B & 175C. There is also a Tq convertor kit listed on there as well. Mine was all dresser parts and only the seals, gaskets, etc. Any bearings you need, let me know. I have the bearing part number vs. the manufacturer. If you get a bearing from the dealer, it'll make your head hurt where as a normal timken, for example the MU1209 which is used in several places can be found for $30-$40. 

Hope this helps.

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Ozfarm, 

Just noticed your post, was in a hurry earlier when I replied. I agree on when they get thin to replace, but I'm still at only 30%-40% worn. If it were more, I would replace them. That's why I've been on the fence over it. 

Thanks for the input though. 

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2 hours ago, Mike Legg said:

We have a 1987 175C and have always wondered if kits or parts were available for the transmission or the torque converter.  I think the 175C and the 15C have the same transmission.  I see where you have ordered a transmission kit for yours.  So far, the transmission in our 175C has been bullet proof; but, you never know.  Was just curious where you purchased your parts.  Thanks.....

Mike,  Just some info,  If I remember right the transmissions are the same except gear ratio.  The two gears on the pinion shaft and slider gear on spline shaft have a different tooth count.  Othwise same.  I know this is true on the B's

I bring this up so someone doesn't use a td15c in a 175c or vise versa.  They won't be happy.

Dennis

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Your kit included the sealing rings? You know what they are right? link didn't work for me. 

 I once replaced I think the hi/low gear in my 20c with one from a B but had to do 2 other gears to make it work, buying all that used was still cheaper then 1 new gear but it did take a 300ton press to do the job. 

 Funny story about a clutch pack on my JD scraper...well it wasn't funny at the time...I had taken the trans out and took the one bad pack to the dealer for inspection and rebuild, oldest guy in the shop did it, put it back in, drove it 10miles back to the job site and as soon as I put the bowl down to start loading it stopped,  would pull itself but nothing more. This time I had the dealer out, same guy and took it all apart again. Finding nothing wrong put it back together and it worked fine. Now he never did acknowledge he screwed up but had stacked the disks in wrong, started with a steel and should have been fiber, like I said he never admitted it but I never got a bill from the dealer.   

 

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Where did you find the fibers and steels? I have one that's lost reverse and assume it needs freshened up

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Pede,

I'll try to get a pic or two of the kit laid out this afternoon and post it. I'm guessing that person doesn't have another kit for sale and maybe that's why the link didn't work. 

 

Adam,

Here's one place I found the disc (part # 702959c1). I've bought lots of other parts from this company and have had good luck with everything. 

https://highwayandheavyparts.com/i-16554257-702959c1-transmission-disc-metallic.html

You can also dig around on here and find the fibers and steels, along with other parts. 

http://www.steeringclutch.com/TD15BTD15C.htm

Good online parts manual

http://www.k-part.com/#?k=!0!18!6356!22!32

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I don't need any parts, just went to take a look, the sealing rings were never part of a kit but it was a long time ago. 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2020 at 1:30 PM, farmalldr said:

Mike,  Just some info,  If I remember right the transmissions are the same except gear ratio.  The two gears on the pinion shaft and slider gear on spline shaft have a different tooth count.  Othwise same.  I know this is true on the B's

I bring this up so someone doesn't use a td15c in a 175c or vise versa.  They won't be happy.

Dennis

I just checked the parts book link that dhutch put up.  I was not aware of the on line parts book.  Looks like I may have put up some bad information as the parts coverage shows the loader, 175C and dozer, TD15C using gears with same tooth count, although the part numbers are different.  So now I don't know what is right.  Guess i should have stayed out of it.  My bad.  Sorry

Dennis

Edited by farmalldr
changed the info

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Quick update on the trans. Finally starting to get it all cleaned up and putting it back together. The sealing rings are in this kit and definitely finicky things to get in without breaking. I'm thinking this is a kit that someone put together from experience and includes more than what the factory originally included. I'll update as I progress. 

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Hard on the fingers aren't they.....

 

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On 1/4/2020 at 2:28 PM, dhutch said:

found the kit on Ebay

The ebay linky no workie ?  Do you have a seller name or other info ?

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Ive been away for a while, I hope the job is going good. I usually swap the discs between F1 and R2, R2 usually has the best discs as they don’t get worked hard. 175’s and 15’s do have different gear ratios. The factory kits always have some extra parts. When assembling it use heavy grease to center the hook rings and some light elastic bands to keep the rollers tight on the inner race as you lower the case down. If you don’t have the rollers secured one could tip out and mess up the cage. 

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Rocko, good to hear from you. Thanks for the info on the sealing rings and bearings. I was wondering the best way to keep the bearings in place when putting the case on. 
I do have one issue. I need three of the separator plate springs. My book shows an inner and outer spring, but I only have one spring per hole, maybe an update??? I was able to order the inner spring (625821c1), but it’s much smaller than what I have. The other spring in my book is 625206C1. These are items 52 & 53 on the reverse clutch pack and the same position on the fwd. if someone has an updated number for the single spring, it’d be great to know.

if you have access to those springs, pm me.

More updates to follow.

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