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1086 hydraulic issue or smoke in mirrors

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Hello everyone, Im new to the forum, Love all the info. I've been a lurker for years. Ive always enjopyed IH tractors. I've read a lot of the previous posts which has helped, however I do still have a problem with my 1086..

If you could help troubleshoot this with me, i'd really appreciate it!

 1086 tractor, closed ceter hydraulics. below is the time line of what i noticed happening. 

  1. noticed that the PTO had trouble staying engaged early in the fall. it eventually stayed on when I was chopping clover. 
  2. later in fall I noticed that the 3PTH wouldnt stay up. It was moving as I thought it should plowing but when tractor was  off( I would come back in the moring and the plow would be on the ground) 
  3. everything was still ok, (Or so I thought) I plowed 80 acres ..then my brother was finishing up plowing and the 3pth arms wouldn't come up and bring the plow out of the ground. (he decided to shut the tractor off and try it again) the arms came up so he decided best thing to do was head for the shop
  4. On his way up to the house he lost the power steering, (TA acted funny too ... I thought he  said that the tractor would only move in DD) **TA would only work one way** 
  5. I borrowed a setup from my friend who had a flow meter with a pressure gauge and put it on the remotes
  6. I could only get 5gpm out of the remote if i pinched back the valve I could build pressure ( around 1500) but I could hear the pump cavitate so i stopped) 
  7.  I grabbed some filters and found that the screen and filter was pretty much plugged. (see pic) lots of glitter in oil 
  8. swapped both hydraulic filters and cleaned the screen (I knew something was definitely wrong) I needed to clean and wash the tractor to work on it. 
  9. I put the flow meter back on after the filter change and it was similar (low flow 5gpm) and I could build pressure but it still wasnt right) 
  10. I drove it a short distance ( the lube light worked as I thought it should  and I had power steering) I had it in TA (lever back) on the way over becasue i was a little chicken and  I didnt want to shift it
  11. I noticed that the PTO was turning when I got out of the tractor (I didnt engage it) it didnt really want to shut off but it finally did, it was like it was slipping 
  12. we cleaned it off and prepared to remove the hitch pump (I thought that was it **THE SMOKING GUN**) 
  13. We drained the oil and found lots of metal (see pics) 
  14. unfortuntely we didnt keep track of what metal came out of which drain. (Not sure what the big piece with arrows is) I thought it came from clutch housing? pretty sure we got metal out of all drain ports 
  15. got the hitch pump out and we thought we would have saw a smoking gun. took the cover off (the pump) can't see any signs of destruction)
  16. we were going to pull the mcv next and see whats in there 

 

Looking for some direction. 

were still looking for the smoking gun, any help would be greatly appreciated! 

thanks so much in advance!

 

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PTO has it's own pump on the rear housing so all PTO problems are separate from the rest of tractor,l. It's easy to pull PTO unit off rear and fix it up.

Wonder of your PTO clutches shelled out and that's were all the flakes came from, either way I think your in for a major split. 

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Major problem.   Bearing failure in transmission or final drive plus leak in hitch cylinder along  with your hydraulic problems.   

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I'd say you have a rear axle bearing problem or rear pinion shaft bearing failure I've had both of those things happen on my 1086 No fun  thats alot of metal floating around in the system and would definitely affect the pto as well 

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Lots going here but pretty sure it all can be traced back to the main problem .... bearing failure sending metal through out the system  . Trying to gauge the size of the bearing roller next to your finger , I am thinking likely pinion bearing or axle bearing . Are any of your rear axle seals leaking ?

PTO : screen maybe plugged for the pump suction tube .

Main Hydraulics : supplies oil to hitch and remote valves . If it still has the piston pump and hasnt been converted to gear pump . There is a screen behind the fitting where the signal hooks up ( need to take line off and fitting to access it takes a flat screwdriver to remove it ) most likely plugged with metal shavings not allowing signal to stroke pump affecting your 3 point and remotes .

3 point : settling due to contaminated oil possibly damaging piston seal or sticking of control valve .

TA : should pull on the low side ( lever down ) even without any hydraulic pressure . Sprag in TA is shot if it stopped moving with the lever back .

MCV pump : affects steering , brakes , TA , hydraulic seat ( if equipped ) , differential lock ( if equipped ) and lube for entire tractor . Pump might be trashed or spool stuck in MCV from contamination .

Could be filter plugged again in short time .

My gut feeling is pinion bearing went out , major rearend tear down . Remove the PTO and use a snake light and you can see the pinion shaft and bearing as well as any flaking , chipping of the pinion shaft or ring gear .

Pretty sure there maybe some things I forgot to mention .

Bob

 

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Pull the 3pt top link cover and look inside the rear end at the inner bearings, might see something.  As noted, you are in for a major teardown, not just to find the problem, but to get the crap out.  DON'T do what we did and try to 'just fix the problem'.  3 teardown's later we finally pulled apart everything (including the differential, where the chips were hiding) and thoroughly cleaned out all the chips, etc.

Your PTO may be crap getting into the clutch disks creating enough drag to make it want to keep turning??   Not stopping means there is enough friction in the clutch pack to keep the shaft turning even if its not engaged.

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The screened valve shown in the hydraulic filter looks to be the original style. They were thermostatically controlled to allow cold oil to be drawn through the screen then were supposed to close when the oil warmed up. Unfortunately they were prone to stick open allowing unfiltered oil to go through the entire system. There was a service bulletin issued quite a few years ago that recommend swapping the valve out to the earlier style that had just a spring and a disc.  The bulletin also recommended running the motor at a faster idle for several minutes in cold weather before putting it to work.  If the pph system had used a charge pump, it would have solved several problems. The piston pump doesn’t create much suction. 

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53 minutes ago, striker782 said:

The screened valve shown in the hydraulic filter looks to be the original style. They were thermostatically controlled to allow cold oil to be drawn through the screen then were supposed to close when the oil warmed up. Unfortunately they were prone to stick open allowing unfiltered oil to go through the entire system. There was a service bulletin issued quite a few years ago that recommend swapping the valve out to the earlier style that had just a spring and a disc.  The bulletin also recommended running the motor at a faster idle for several minutes in cold weather before putting it to work.  If the pph system had used a charge pump, it would have solved several problems. The piston pump doesn’t create much suction. 

the pfc pump only pumped on demand when it was in stroke otherwise it kept 300 psi standby pressure in the system  the signal orfices screens wouldn't take much comtamination to make the pump act up and yes the spring loaded by-pass was a better deal also I overhauled several of them pumps they were very simple almost primative 

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8 hours ago, TRK said:

Hello everyone, Im new to the forum, Love all the info. I've been a lurker for years. Ive always enjopyed IH tractors. I've read a lot of the previous posts which has helped, however I do still have a problem with my 1086..

If you could help troubleshoot this with me, i'd really appreciate it!

 1086 tractor, closed ceter hydraulics. below is the time line of what i noticed happening. 

  1. noticed that the PTO had trouble staying engaged early in the fall. it eventually stayed on when I was chopping clover. 
  2. later in fall I noticed that the 3PTH wouldnt stay up. It was moving as I thought it should plowing but when tractor was  off( I would come back in the moring and the plow would be on the ground) 
  3. everything was still ok, (Or so I thought) I plowed 80 acres ..then my brother was finishing up plowing and the 3pth arms wouldn't come up and bring the plow out of the ground. (he decided to shut the tractor off and try it again) the arms came up so he decided best thing to do was head for the shop
  4. On his way up to the house he lost the power steering, (TA acted funny too ... I thought he  said that the tractor would only move in DD) **TA would only work one way** 
  5. I borrowed a setup from my friend who had a flow meter with a pressure gauge and put it on the remotes
  6. I could only get 5gpm out of the remote if i pinched back the valve I could build pressure ( around 1500) but I could hear the pump cavitate so i stopped) 
  7.  I grabbed some filters and found that the screen and filter was pretty much plugged. (see pic) lots of glitter in oil 
  8. swapped both hydraulic filters and cleaned the screen (I knew something was definitely wrong) I needed to clean and wash the tractor to work on it. 
  9. I put the flow meter back on after the filter change and it was similar (low flow 5gpm) and I could build pressure but it still wasnt right) 
  10. I drove it a short distance ( the lube light worked as I thought it should  and I had power steering) I had it in TA (lever back) on the way over becasue i was a little chicken and  I didnt want to shift it
  11. I noticed that the PTO was turning when I got out of the tractor (I didnt engage it) it didnt really want to shut off but it finally did, it was like it was slipping 
  12. we cleaned it off and prepared to remove the hitch pump (I thought that was it **THE SMOKING GUN**) 
  13. We drained the oil and found lots of metal (see pics) 
  14. unfortuntely we didnt keep track of what metal came out of which drain. (Not sure what the big piece with arrows is) I thought it came from clutch housing? pretty sure we got metal out of all drain ports 
  15. got the hitch pump out and we thought we would have saw a smoking gun. took the cover off (the pump) can't see any signs of destruction)
  16. we were going to pull the mcv next and see whats in there 

 

Looking for some direction. 

were still looking for the smoking gun, any help would be greatly appreciated! 

thanks so much in advance!

 

  1.  

IMG_7200.jpg

IMG_9578.JPG

IMG_9456.jpeg

IMG_0934 (1).jpeg

that roller looks like an inner axle bearing roller I would start jacking up wheels and checking for axle looseness

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thanks so much for all the help! 

Its interesting because I did notice the left side axle seal is now leaking, I didnt notice it until it was on the concrete. 

I will have to make a game plan. looks like a real doozie! 

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6 minutes ago, TRK said:

thanks so much for all the help! 

Its interesting because I did notice the left side axle seal is now leaking, I didnt notice it until it was on the concrete. 

I will have to make a game plan. looks like a real doozie! 

Jack up the left side and watch closely for movement of the axle close to the outside bearing cap as you are lifting . There should not be any or very little movement .

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