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INTERNATIONAL 1466

MCV pump ?

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Any thoughts on why the MCV pump looses prime when it gets cold and never misses when it is warm. Usually we just put in a new one when this happens and it fixes the problem. Have one that got a new pump last spring because it would loose prime, now it is doing it again that it is cold. Had a customer tractor in the shop last week, didn't come for a hydraulic issue. Drove it out and parked it outside for future pickup. Went to move it today, no MCV functions at all. Never missed a lick in the shop and owner didn't say anything about it either. What shrinks when it gets cold? Maybe not a great pump that we put in ours last spring? It was a brand new 13 gpm pump. Have them in others with no issues. Gotta love gremlins!!!!!!!!!

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Is this a large frame IH? Is there a whine or other noise when this happens? Does the MCV plate have the extra spacer plate? Someone on this forum said that if you go nuts with a die grinder removing the gasket material you can round off the edges of the holes and cause the o-rings to leak.

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1 hour ago, INTERNATIONAL 1466 said:

Any thoughts on why the MCV pump looses prime when it gets cold and never misses when it is warm. Usually we just put in a new one when this happens and it fixes the problem. Have one that got a new pump last spring because it would loose prime, now it is doing it again that it is cold. Had a customer tractor in the shop last week, didn't come for a hydraulic issue. Drove it out and parked it outside for future pickup. Went to move it today, no MCV functions at all. Never missed a lick in the shop and owner didn't say anything about it either. What shrinks when it gets cold? Maybe not a great pump that we put in ours last spring? It was a brand new 13 gpm pump. Have them in others with no issues. Gotta love gremlins!!!!!!!!!

Oil filter

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In my experience when you start these up cold the much larger hitch pump will pull so hard to try to get it’s oil through the filter that it will un-prime the MCV pump. 
dirty filter, weak MCV pump and cold thick oil all add up to this condition. 

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I'm sure you checked the filter and cover  o ring or gasket depending on series of tractor.  Some of these new aftermarket pumps don't have enough vacuum to move cold oil. Did you see the earlier post about the new pump with metal shavings inside? That was a 13 gpm too. 

I know of guys with 560's that take the filter out in the winter, and they should be easy to prime with the pump being directly across from the filter. 

 

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My guess would be the o-ring between the speed and range transmissions....the one that overfilling by 5 gallons usually helps with... Hitch pump and filter is in the rear, before the o-ring, the mcv pump is in front of the o-ring... Just a guess.

Travis

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If you don’t have the trans pick up tube seal good. This is in backside of filter and the filter cover oring with  ears not bent on cover they won’t prime when cold. A bad pump and middle oring can do it to. Our  1256 that stuff is all good in. Sat out in hayfield the other day 11 above . A shot of jd ether through the can she was running and primed, loaded a few loads of hay. No it does not have hytran  in either. Isn’t complicated on those tractors all the seals good pumps prime and work good in the cold. The mcv pump sometimes and the middle oring can give you trouble. The big thing is suction tube in rear end climbs out of the oil level. I want to find every engineer that mounted a hydraulic pump or intake above oil level and clobber their backside with a rubber hose. Common sense oil tank up pump below oil level not hard to figure out. Versatile tractors and John Deere’s do this to. Buick engine oil pumps, cat , Cummins ,ihc Dt466 pumps and others can be a pain if not right also. On another note my only other pet peeve is 500 watt halogen lights. I want to find the inventor shove one up his anus and plug it in.

  • Haha 2

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I had the same issue, had to use a nipco to get er going, but it would also loose when I would steer sharp, i just bought a kit amd went through mcv myself on the kitchen table wasnt that bad, then put new expensive fluid in it and on a 20 below day works perfect, its louder but that's fine with me, let's me know its working

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If ya take it apart dont loose that tiny spring that looks like it should be kn a click pen

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1 hour ago, Rusty shackleford said:

I had the same issue, had to use a nipco to get er going, but it would also loose when I would steer sharp, i just bought a kit amd went through mcv myself on the kitchen table wasnt that bad, then put new expensive fluid in it and on a 20 below day works perfect, its louder but that's fine with me, let's me know its working

If your pumps whine and are loud it is tell tale sign of vacuum leak at filter. When you use on a baler or other long cylinders. Main Hydraulic pump should push big cylinders smooth and fast. Any chatter ,pump whine or jerking means you have a leak that needs attention. It is very noticeable between a working system and one that primes and steers but isn’t right. 

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Here is the picture of parts you need to fix. When you replace every seal on those hydraulics work well for their time.

80DDB0E7-9D3D-44BE-B958-27E2C5C42DEA.jpeg

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1 hour ago, dale560 said:

Here is the picture of parts you need to fix. When you replace every seal on those hydraulics work well for their time.

80DDB0E7-9D3D-44BE-B958-27E2C5C42DEA.jpeg

I didnt mean it was real loud, just ment you can hear it, sounds about the same as the other ones around

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Been working on these for over 30 years, know all the parts. Was just curious what the thoughts were on what was most affected by the cold. Seems like an o ring that shrinks would be most likely, but you can never tell by looking when you disassemble one. Thanks for the thoughts guys.

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Just the restriction of the filter on very cold oil will cause cavittion, even when it opens the by pass valve. Cavitation is a vacuum forming in the stream of fluid or even a section of nothing, complete vacuum between sections of fluid.  When that hits the pump, the pump whines and it also does same thing inside pump that cavitation does to the sleeves in an engine.  Thus the pitting that occurs in the pump.  Really difficult to over come even on a good tight  system with no air suction leaks.  

Filtering system with less restriction and finer filter after the pump , but of course that can expose pump to more contaminants.

Main reason suction tubes are mounted in frame the way they are is so you can change filter without draining   oil.   Some models have a flapper valve you allow to close before changing the filter which works kind of half aaaaa.    The other problem with mcv pump loss of prime is the passage from filter housing rises up above fluid level  and suction tube fluid level allowing it to drain back when shut down.  That part     I think they  should have done a much better engineering job as mcv prime has always been a major problem on these models. 

 

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That explains it Pete. I just want to whip those guys with a rubber hose. Got a 875 versatile that hyd pump primes hard when cold but you just loosen pressure hose to get it to go. A 160 versatile that gives problems trying to suck oil up.

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