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Front Axle "fun"


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46 minutes ago, searcyfarms said:

we couldnt get ours loose on the 560, beat, heated, cursed, chained, jacked, like all this stuff so we took bolts out, wedge washers to spread tightener, tacked those to not fall out, sprayed with oils of various types off/on, drove around  just doing chores/mowing,  anything at slow speeds, with all the bolts and things holding it for about 3 months and then one day POP front wheel twisted and bent the steering/tie rod and it was loose, came right apart after that lol. 

 

I have done the same thing but i put a smaller diameter bolt in the center hole so it could only more so far that way you don't ruin the tie rod.

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SUCCESS!   I got it out--no heat!   I want to thank all of you for all your suggestions, I tried several different suggested techniques and they helped. 1st, I drilled the hole as noted above and

Only thing that's going to talk to it is heat. May not even take much. No need to get it red hot. Betcha a crisp $20 that when you do get it apart, the PB won't have "penetrated" a fraction of an

Hmmm...  several comments on here about using a grease zerk.   Has anybody tried one of those "zerk clearing" tools that you fill with penetrating oil, attach to a grease zerk, and hit with a hammer t

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I think I’ll leave the 560 aNd super c alone. 🤣😂👍🏿👀🚜

I might suggest a weiners roast. Lay the wide front down in a fire 🔥 ring and submerged it in three  40 pound bags of charcoal and light it . Get weiners and bun or a grilll might as well have to fun enjoying a beer 🍺 that will get hot , got to repaint it anyway 

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4 hours ago, rcb said:

Did you put the zerks on the top/bottom or the sides?

If I remember right I put them on staggered all the way around.

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 The  problem in removing those axle knees is that the knee pipe is flared a little on the end that inserts into the center section. Flare makes it fit inside the center section pipe with little clearance.  Water and dust can enter through the tread spacing  bolt holes and the clamp slots . Rust forms and along with dust , restricts or prevents any movement.    Some years ago I had a tough one on a 56 series tractor .  I  drilled a 1/4 inch hole through the center section just deep enough that it broke through the wall of the center section pipe.  The hole needs to be located near the end of where the knee pipe is located inside the center section pipe. I poured diesel fuel into the 1/4 inch hole to flow around both sides of the knee pipe . Let set for awhile.   Applied some heat and  some pressure with jacks as pictured in the posts above.  It moved a little,  then I applied twisting motion.   It broke free and was removed with more twisting and pressure.

Once you get the knee out , scrub out the inside of the center section with the roughest grit emery cloth or sanding paper that can be had. Flush it with diesel or kerosene and then repeat. Clean the outside of the knee pipe with wire wheel or sanding disc on a portable grinder. Puddle weld the 1/4" hole drilled through the center section being careful to not let molten metal sag in so deep as the knee would contact it. Also , hole could be threaded for a small pipe plug should axle need working again in the future.

Below is a drawing I made. Captions are explanatory. In determining where to drill a hole in the center section pipe, if one knee can be removed, put it beside the unmovable knee to locate where the hole needs drilling . If neither knee can be removed, then you will need to measure with either a narrow tape or a wire with short hook bent on the end inserted into the knee as depicted in the drawing.

If the complete axle is to be removed from the tractor, I would stand the axle vertically against a wall or tree and pour plenty of diesel or kerosene down the space between the pipes. Doing so should get enough lubricant completely down to the flared area of the knee pipe and it might not be necessary to drill a lubricant hole through the center section pipe.

I have read that some guys have told of putting stuck rusted parts in water for a few days. When removed from water the parts  separated rather easily. Makes me curious as to what using water and some detergent or soap as a penetrating  fluid applied into stuck axles,  then heating it to boiling point, would do in loosening the rust and dirt.

001.jpg

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A thought here for some input. Why couldn't a fellow put some grease zerks on and grease it ever so often to help keep them from rusty up so tight. Just athought

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5 minutes ago, Wes806 said:

A thought here for some input. Why couldn't a fellow put some grease zerks on and grease it ever so often to help keep them from rusty up so tight. Just athought

I think if I wanted to install grease fittings,  I would see if a grease gun would pump motor oil or 90 wt or maybe 140 wt gear lube into a grease fitting. Something that would stay more fluid. 

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11 hours ago, 7and8and1456 said:

I think if I wanted to install grease fittings,  I would see if a grease gun would pump motor oil or 90 wt or maybe 140 wt gear lube into a grease fitting. Something that would stay more fluid. 

use cornhead grease its thinner and still can use a grease zerk to lube

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Is there any concern with weakening the metal in the center section with all the heat you guys all use?   I need to move a couple of my tractors as well, but haven't had a chance to work on any of them. 

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4 hours ago, B.B. said:

Is there any concern with weakening the metal in the center section with all the heat you guys all use?   I need to move a couple of my tractors as well, but haven't had a chance to work on any of them. 

They don't get hot enough to change the molecular structure, the heat just allows expansion of the tube that even with the rust you have some clearance which allows them to move with less force needed.  

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Can you fill the od tube with hydraulic fluid (or water ) and push it out ?

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Step 1 - find big tree , Step 2 chain one side to big tree , Step 3 chain other side to payloader , Step 4 - hold my beer , Step 5 - PULL , something is gonna move.😁

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Yall can't get them apart and I can't get them to stay tight!

I have several tractors I have bought that have the holes wallowed out where they were run loose!

If I want to move a knee I just loosen the clamp bolts, install the smaller bolt and use the tractor normally until it breaks loose.  Then I work on it when I have time.

Thx-Ace

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Hmmm...  several comments on here about using a grease zerk.   Has anybody tried one of those "zerk clearing" tools that you fill with penetrating oil, attach to a grease zerk, and hit with a hammer to drive the stuff in?   Might be a reason to try one if they work!

My other thought is....1/4" pipe thread tapped into the outer sleeve, screw in a fitting, attach a hydraulic hose and plug it into a tractor and put 2500psi oil on the job.  MIght force some oil into the area?

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Just now, Jeff-C-IL said:

Hmmm...  several comments on here about using a grease zerk.   Has anybody tried one of those "zerk clearing" tools that you fill with penetrating oil, attach to a grease zerk, and hit with a hammer to drive the stuff in?   Might be a reason to try one if they work!

 

they dont work except when issue  is caught early or home type items.

we had several expensive models and the local contractors shop tried them

seals blown out, end broke, fittings broke, shaft bent,alot in your face (remember safety)

and most liquids used as instructed and "noted" will erode the seals 

in most cases gone this far ( most axles shown above)< less than 30 minutes of simultaneous moderate extended heat makes no difference either.

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For a number of years it seemed everyone would buy me those stupid grease buster tools for Christmas............Think I got about all of the ones made here in a drawer..................All of them proved to be junk.  I wouldn't waste my time drilling and tapping, greasing ect..............Heat, cooling, heat again, with constant high force.  I do use the old head trick of brake fluid while it is warm, seems the warmth draws it in and it helps loosen the rust, atleast to the un-trained eye.  

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I bought a grease fitting buster.  It sucks.  Just used diesel in it.  Out of several fittings only o e came free.  

 

Waste of hard earned dollars.

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Here is an update....still haven't got it loose, but this is a technique that HAS to help...

Drilled and tapped a 1/8" pipe thread fitting into the casting on the top "casting boss" -  see picture.  I had to jack up the opposite side to tilt the axle so I could drill straight in past the frame rail.   Note:  Make sure to not drill thru the inner tube.  You can clearly tell when you get thru the cast into the steel inner tube...the outer cast  is easy to drill and creates chips--the steel inner tube is harder and "spirals".    I drilled just slightly into the inner tube to create some clearance.  Also, I used a high quality "high clearance" pipe tap with every other thread cut away to get a clean thread into the cast....then ran a standard tap in to finish cleaning up.  I only tapped it deep enough to get a good fit on the pipe.   

Then, I built a step up pipe adapter.   First,  I simply filled the "stand pipe" with penetrating oil and it soaks down in in a minute.  Then I threaded a fitting for the porta-power into it.   Hooked up the porta-power and started pumping....huh---no resistance, is the pump not working?  Couple more pumps...and oil is running out of the outer end of the tube, and out of the inner slots...COOL!    (Now I need to go get some Jack Oil....:rolleyes:!)

So at least part of the tube now has oil soaked along the whole length.  I'm considering hooking up a hose to a tractor and "blasting" some oil in to see if I can get it more places.  Only thing I have to lose is a little oil.  I'm currently letting it soak (its too COLD to work outside anyway)

If this method works, then Its a great non-destructive method that leaves very little damage behind.  I can simply plug the hole with silicon or a inset drive pipe plug.

Next step will be to make a "wrench" to hook to the holes and twist the axle.  I'm considering torching something out of 3/4" plate, strong enough I can smack the end with a maul to shock the system.

IMG_5959.JPG

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6 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Here is an update....still haven't got it loose, but this is a technique that HAS to help...

Drilled and tapped a 1/8" pipe thread fitting into the casting on the top "casting boss" -  see picture.  I had to jack up the opposite side to tilt the axle so I could drill straight in past the frame rail.   Note:  Make sure to not drill thru the inner tube.  You can clearly tell when you get thru the cast into the steel inner tube...the outer cast  is easy to drill and creates chips--the steel inner tube is harder and "spirals".    I drilled just slightly into the inner tube to create some clearance.  Also, I used a high quality "high clearance" pipe tap with every other thread cut away to get a clean thread into the cast....then ran a standard tap in to finish cleaning up.  I only tapped it deep enough to get a good fit on the pipe.   

Then, I built a step up pipe adapter.   First,  I simply filled the "stand pipe" with penetrating oil and it soaks down in in a minute.  Then I threaded a fitting for the porta-power into it.   Hooked up the porta-power and started pumping....huh---no resistance, is the pump not working?  Couple more pumps...and oil is running out of the outer end of the tube, and out of the inner slots...COOL!    (Now I need to go get some Jack Oil....:rolleyes:!)

So at least part of the tube now has oil soaked along the whole length.  I'm considering hooking up a hose to a tractor and "blasting" some oil in to see if I can get it more places.  Only thing I have to lose is a little oil.  I'm currently letting it soak (its too COLD to work outside anyway)

If this method works, then Its a great non-destructive method that leaves very little damage behind.  I can simply plug the hole with silicon or a inset drive pipe plug.

Next step will be to make a "wrench" to hook to the holes and twist the axle.  I'm considering torching something out of 3/4" plate, strong enough I can smack the end with a maul to shock the system.

IMG_5959.JPG

If you do a couple more holes around the front and back side you probably have it lubed up good.

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