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sandhiller

Military discrimination

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I think one of the concerns was using the military as a way to get a free sex change operation. You came in as a male or female your leaving as the same sex as you came in would have fixed that issue instead of a ban.

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1 hour ago, Indy Farmer said:

Oh come on, that's just not true. Post some super 70 series pictures and you'll see a positive Indy!

Start your own. 

I promise to stay out of it. 

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2 hours ago, oldtanker said:

Seth studies have placed the transgender suicide rate at 41.8%.  Now a service member who has served 180 days who attempts suicide will be medically discharged an receive benefits until death. That suicide rate stays the same even if they have "gender realignment surgery". That's one reason. Add that to the service members who suffer from PTSD? Now you have a situation where you just enlisted someone who has over a 50% chance of committing/attempting suicide.

For your general information until very recently a transgendered person was diagnosed with "gender dysphoria" making this a genuine mental health issue. The only reason they no longer state that openly is the LGBT community raised a hue and cry about it claiming discrimination. It still is considered a mental health issue behind closed doors. Does that mean that they could serve till just before discharge then claim disability as having a mental disorder? Lot of issues at play here. I really doubt that having them sign a disclaimer before enlistment would stand up in court and this would wind up in court if disability compensation was denied.  

So to start with I'm willing to bet a large number, once in service, would demand gender realignment surgery at government expense. 

Another is the issues on housing and supplying personnel with barracks/berthing space and uniforms.

How you you feel about your daughter having to share a berthing space on a ship or a barracks room with a biological male who associates with being female? 

I can also see a transgender person disgruntled after not being selected for assignment/promotion one day demanding to be in a male room and the next associating as a female just to be a pain in the backside.

Another question would be uniform issue. Do they get an extra issue of both uniforms?  The male and female dress uniforms are different.

The military would have to treat them as whatever their biological birth gender is. They would yell and scream discrimination about that too.

So IMO there are good reason to deny them the opportunity to serve.

 

Rick

Well said

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2 minutes ago, cedar farm said:

Well said

Now that`s just going to give OT a big head...

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2 hours ago, MTO said:

Didn`t see where anyone did. Calling our military a bunch of snowflakes, eh?

If I had as many dislikes for our country as you did IF, I`d move to a better place. 

I`ll come help you pack!

I wanna see him walk into a bar full of Marine or Rangers and tell em they are snowflakes🤣🤣! It seems to be easy for some to call names while hiding behind a computer.

Rick

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3 hours ago, Indy Farmer said:

That's what I'm getting at. It doesn't matter. The military prides itself on their ability to adapt, but apparently can't adapt to this new phenomenon. Sounds like a bunch of snowflakes if you ask 

Sounds like someone who most likely never served but can run his mouth, W** are you talking about? You call soldiers snow flakes because they dont want people with mental disorders to carry weapons along side them, 22 vets commit suicide a day from what soldiers go through amd you want to put a nut case that already has a 40 percent chance of committing suicide in the mix? Your nuts. Women should not be aloud in the infantry ether, if bs when the military lowers there standards so a girl can make it, then everyone celebrates and ses " see girls can do what guys do" well only when the standards have been lowered and they get special treatment to barley get by. And next time you want to call the military snowflakes, maybe you should join yourself first

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6 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

Ok but what's that got to do with trans-genders? If Suzy/Stevie wants to fight, can pass the physical requirements and has his proverbial brown gooey stuff together, I'd be proud to say he represents our country. 

If Suzy steve has that bad of a mental disorder that the retard cant tell whether it's a boy or a girl and will most likely at 1 point try to commit suicide then no the are automatically disqualified for service, I've seen guys I serve with who were tuff as **** and down to earth be pulled put of missions because of there mental health, and they started ok, so why would any idiot think it's ok to send someone that's already jaked up out into battle, 

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Maybe if the Gov. puts all kinds in service, then maybe I won't have to re-serve and help straighten the mess out ? I hope I stayed under the radar with that answer.

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Why are they special? Because someone told them so? I was held out of military service by a childhood medical condition that hadn't manifested itself in years(and now doesn't keep you out). Oh well that's the breaks. Has it hurt me? **** yes. No tuition reimbursement,student loan forgiveness in College. Go to the back of the line or not even get considered for some employment. Watch people in my eventual career get promoted over me because of military service. Fill the many gaps created by Reservists and Guardsmen when they are deployed. Again,SO WHAT. It's the price we pay for a competent (mostly) military.

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It always escalates, gays wanted marriage,  they said it's just love we wont come after your kids, now they're after kids having nasty drag queen story time amd teaching perversions to kids in school, you let trannys in the military and soon you will have them joining justto have the military pay for there sex change, they will say it's a needed operation and if you dont they are being discriminated against, so tax dollars will go to someone who wants to mutilate there genitals and them not even be able to serve for at least 6 months after, dosnt sound like a good plan for our military's spending and ability to do its job, amd the whole time it will be taking money away from them who served amd suffered for this country, but it seems like alot of people care more about guys that want to chop there own weens off than the veterans and people who actually take care of this country

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7 hours ago, Indy Farmer said:

That's what I'm getting at. It doesn't matter. The military prides itself on their ability to adapt, but apparently can't adapt to this new phenomenon. Sounds like a bunch of snowflakes if you ask me.

Trans people are in the most time mental unstable people and unstable people can compremise the mission. If you use the wrong pronounce some trans people will be freak out. 

 

3 hours ago, Rusty shackleford said:

It always escalates, gays wanted marriage,  they said it's just love we wont come after your kids, now they're after kids having nasty drag queen story time amd teaching perversions to kids in school, you let trannys in the military and soon you will have them joining justto have the military pay for there sex change, they will say it's a needed operation and if you dont they are being discriminated against, so tax dollars will go to someone who wants to mutilate there genitals and them not even be able to serve for at least 6 months after, dosnt sound like a good plan for our military's spending and ability to do its job, amd the whole time it will be taking money away from them who served amd suffered for this country, but it seems like alot of people care more about guys that want to chop there own weens off than the veterans and people who actually take care of this country

It can be worse some activists wanting sex change surgery for kids or putting them on puberty blockers. 

I think this sketch will be considered hate speech today

 

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17 hours ago, Rusty shackleford said:

Sounds like someone who most likely never served but can run his mouth, W** are you talking about? You call soldiers snow flakes because they dont want people with mental disorders to carry weapons along side them, 22 vets commit suicide a day from what soldiers go through amd you want to put a nut case that already has a 40 percent chance of committing suicide in the mix? Your nuts. Women should not be aloud in the infantry ether, if bs when the military lowers there standards so a girl can make it, then everyone celebrates and ses " see girls can do what guys do" well only when the standards have been lowered and they get special treatment to barley get by. And next time you want to call the military snowflakes, maybe you should join yourself first

Calm down, I'm not disparaging the military, just those who are too fragile to accept that people have the gall to be different from themselves (see: bigotry). If someone can do a job, who are you to say they can't do it? I'd wager to say there's tons of trans and women that could put you to shame in military matters. Seems to me that you're afraid of people you don't understand. That's your problem, not theirs. Do you think there's no gays or trans or whatever serving right now? Ever heard of "don't ask, don't tell"? That's literally the military acknowledging that there's "other" kinds of folks serving and they don't care as long as they can do the job. The military obviously has standards that everyone must adhere to, straight gay or otherwise. I'm pretty sure they discharge straight folks for questionable things too.

This is a free country. Either you value liberty or you don't. What you propose does not espouse liberty.

 

Whether or not the military has the burden of paying for medical or psychological services is a different story.  

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18 hours ago, Rusty shackleford said:

If Suzy steve has that bad of a mental disorder that the retard cant tell whether it's a boy or a girl and will most likely at 1 point try to commit suicide then no the are automatically disqualified for service, I've seen guys I serve with who were tuff as **** and down to earth be pulled put of missions because of there mental health, and they started ok, so why would any idiot think it's ok to send someone that's already jaked up out into battle, 

Read what you just wrote, but slower.

Quote

"If Suzy steve has that bad of a mental disorder that the retard cant tell whether it's a boy or a girl and will most likely at 1 point try to commit suicide then no the are automatically disqualified for service"

Quote

" I've seen guys I serve with who were tuff as **** and down to earth be pulled put of missions because of there mental health, and they started ok"

 

In a previous post you said that 22 vets a day commit suicide. By your logic those 'tough as ****' guys weren't fit for service because of their eventual mental health issues. You know, the same mental health issues that may or may not disqualify an otherwise good soldier based on their sexual preferences. Now you're lumping troubled soldiers with those you're disparaging. Do you not see your own hypocrisy? You're the same kind of guy who would have cheered Bruce Jenner for his gold medal performance in the Olympics, then doing a complete 180 afterwards just because you don't agree with his new life style. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

 

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WE DONT NEED MENTALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE IN OUR ARMED FORCES!!!!  Sorry for the yelling, but dang, whiskey tango foxtrot?   They belong in an institution where they can receive treatment, not on the front lines of our next battle.  If you can't understand why, it's your fault.  Our military is not a social club.

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1 hour ago, Indy Farmer said:

Read what you just wrote, but slower.

 

In a previous post you said that 22 vets a day commit suicide. By your logic those 'tough as ****' guys weren't fit for service because of their eventual mental health issues. You know, the same mental health issues that may or may not disqualify an otherwise good soldier based on their sexual preferences. Now you're lumping troubled soldiers with those you're disparaging. Do you not see your own hypocrisy? You're the same kind of guy who would have cheered Bruce Jenner for his gold medal performance in the Olympics, then doing a complete 180 afterwards just because you don't agree with his new life style. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

 

These are people who have mental issues before even going into the service, 

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12 minutes ago, Rusty shackleford said:

These are people who have mental issues before even going into the service, 

All of them? You're obviously aware that mental instability is a disqualifier for service regardless of sexual orientation. What about those who have no signs of instability? Do you think they should still be unable to serve just because of their orientation?

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On 12/6/2019 at 7:47 AM, Indy Farmer said:

That all sounds fine and dandy, but in recent history a bunch of rice farmers and goat herders put a hurting on the most advanced military in the world. I'm not sure it matters all that much anymore.

Would you be speaking of vietnam? You can thank johnson for that loss. Wasnt our militarys fault. Even with all the rules of engagement forced upon our fighting men we still had em on the ropes when that gutless administration threw in the towel and betrayed our fighting men by not allowing them to complete the mission. Politics lost us that war NOT our military. Touchy feeley transgender BS is exactly what destroys militarys. Transgenders are sick in the head period. We should get them help not train them to use weaponry.

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9 hours ago, Indy Farmer said:

All of them? You're obviously aware that mental instability is a disqualifier for service regardless of sexual orientation. What about those who have no signs of instability? Do you think they should still be unable to serve just because of their orientation?

Anyone with any signs of mental issues have no business in the military, it's hard enough to find the ones that you camt tell if there ok, but the trans obviously have mental problems so its ez to say no 

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Fragile? Bigot? I served 6 years in the military and 1.5 years in iraq as an infantry gunner and scout, you sir sound like you have a mental disorder yourself, maybe trump derangement syndrome, No point trying to talk to these reprobates, everyone who dosnt agree with them is a bigot racist homophobe, which just means normal 

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8 hours ago, Indy Farmer said:

 

The thing of it is that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue. Gender dysphoria is a recognized condition, for which treatment is appropriate. The LGBT community claims it is a medical condition but mental health professionals disagree because of the suicide and other mental health issues. Did you miss the part that 41.8% become suicidal even after gender realignment surgery? Did you also miss that that once they have served 180 days they can claim to be having mental health issues which will see them booted out and because you let them knowingly join you now have to pay them disability for life?

 So we don't allow someone known, prior to enlistment/swearing in, to have certain conditions or diseases. For example if you test positive for AIDs they won't let you serve. If someone tried to join with a history of mental health problems they are barred from serving. Not tall enough? Can't serve. Too tall? Can't serve. Overweight? Barred from service until you meet the standards. Heck you even have to pass a physical fitness test to join now. And depending on demands anything more than a couple of traffic tickets can be a bar to service. Heck in the late 80 you had to have a high school diploma (GED didn't count) to join and 3 minor traffic tickets were enough to bar you from serving. And at the same time we were kicking people out right and left. For example 3 NSF checks over 6 months off or on post was enough to boot you even if you made them good right away.   

Heck you are the one always yelling about taxes too. You want to pay for every trans gendered person to be issued 2 sets of dress uniforms? You want to have to pay for gender realignment surgery? You want your daughter assigned to a room with a biological male who associates with being a woman (only way to solve that is to build all new barracks with individual private rooms)? 

I really don't care if someone is gay or transgendered . But I do care about my taxes and military readiness. Based on what I know I cannot see one good reason to knowingly let transgended people serve. In fact I can see far more problems and expense in letting transgendered serve with no extra benefit to the military than of say letting a straight or openly gay person serve. 

 

Rick

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On 12/6/2019 at 10:44 AM, oldtanker said:

Seth studies have placed the transgender suicide rate at 41.8%.  Now a service member who has served 180 days who attempts suicide will be medically discharged an receive benefits until death. That suicide rate stays the same even if they have "gender realignment surgery". That's one reason. Add that to the service members who suffer from PTSD? Now you have a situation where you just enlisted someone who has over a 50% chance of committing/attempting suicide.

For your general information until very recently a transgendered person was diagnosed with "gender dysphoria" making this a genuine mental health issue. The only reason they no longer state that openly is the LGBT community raised a hue and cry about it claiming discrimination. It still is considered a mental health issue behind closed doors. Does that mean that they could serve till just before discharge then claim disability as having a mental disorder? Lot of issues at play here. I really doubt that having them sign a disclaimer before enlistment would stand up in court and this would wind up in court if disability compensation was denied.  

So to start with I'm willing to bet a large number, once in service, would demand gender realignment surgery at government expense. 

Another is the issues on housing and supplying personnel with barracks/berthing space and uniforms.

How you you feel about your daughter having to share a berthing space on a ship or a barracks room with a biological male who associates with being female? 

I can also see a transgender person disgruntled after not being selected for assignment/promotion one day demanding to be in a male room and the next associating as a female just to be a pain in the backside.

Another question would be uniform issue. Do they get an extra issue of both uniforms?  The male and female dress uniforms are different.

The military would have to treat them as whatever their biological birth gender is. They would yell and scream discrimination about that too.

So IMO there are good reason to deny them the opportunity to serve.

 

Rick

Rick, that is a well reasoned and a well explained reply. It’s one I can perhaps see myself getting behind. 

No I do not want to see someone receiving gender reassignment as a military benefit, that doesn’t mean I do i think that If someone wants to serve and is capable they shouldn’t. 

My wife also presented an interesting slant, as a woman she feels very uncomfortable with the bathroom situation, not that she is particularly worried about someone who is actually “legitimately” using the women’s bathroom as a “woman” but the freak show predator who might use the new found excuse to enter the women’s restroom or other facilities for more sinister reasons. If it becomes commonplace for men to be in ladies rooms and vice versa perhaps that opens the door more widely to perverts. 

Its a problem and I don’t think there is one solution. Furthermore I’m gonna go out on a limb and say 99.99 percent of trans gender individuals don’t want anything to do with military service. Of that .01 i still say if they can pass all requirements(mental as well) they ought to have the opportunity. However I do recognize that it is creating a world of issues that didn’t exist 10-20 years ago. 

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2 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

Rick, that is a well reasoned and a well explained reply. It’s one I can perhaps see myself getting behind. 

No I do not want to see someone receiving gender reassignment as a military benefit, that doesn’t mean I do i think that If someone wants to serve and is capable they shouldn’t. 

My wife also presented an interesting slant, as a woman she feels very uncomfortable with the bathroom situation, not that she is particularly worried about someone who is actually “legitimately” using the women’s bathroom as a “woman” but the freak show predator who might use the new found excuse to enter the women’s restroom or other facilities for more sinister reasons. If it becomes commonplace for men to be in ladies rooms and vice versa perhaps that opens the door more widely to perverts. 

Its a problem and I don’t think there is one solution. Furthermore I’m gonna go out on a limb and say 99.99 percent of trans gender individuals don’t want anything to do with military service. Of that .01 i still say if they can pass all requirements(mental as well) they ought to have the opportunity. However I do recognize that it is creating a world of issues that didn’t exist 10-20 years ago. 

Bottom line Seth I honestly believe that any advantage military might gain for allowing a trans gender person to serve would be far out weighed by the potential cost.

Kinda goes back to the Clinton day when he initiated the "don't ask/don't tell" policy. Coming out and admitting that you were gay was grounds for a discharge. Young soldiers who decided they didn't like the military were claiming to be gay to get a discharge. Hate to think the cost of that was to the military and tax payer. That was corrected when the military was told they would allow gays to openly serve. But there was nearly 20 years that service members could "opt out". Kinda like the Army never really came out and admitted that more than a few female soldiers who were assigned to Iraq and Afghanistan got pregnant shorty after arriving in country. They knew if they got pregnant they would be shipped out of the hazardous duty zone. Basically the brass wasn't allowed to bring that up because it wasn't politically correct.

And I have absolutely no problem with females in the military. I don't have a problem with them in combat jobs as long as they have to rise up to the standards. The standards should not be lowered to allow them to pass. The problem there is if they don't pass advanced training the policy is to discharge them. They found out years ago that retraining them in a different career than what they chose results in a disgruntled service member that's just going to be trouble down the road. So it's cheaper to kick em out and train someone else in the long run. It's been that way ever sense they figure out how expensive it is to actually jail folks for minor misconduct. 

Rick

 

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10 hours ago, Rusty shackleford said:

Anyone with any signs of mental issues have no business in the military, it's hard enough to find the ones that you camt tell if there ok, but the trans obviously have mental problems so its ez to say no 

I've already acknowledged that. Why don't you answer the question?

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